Project Noir: The Blueprint to Empower Black Women
00:00:00 i got two interesting guests in our room today i’m gonna be honest with you i’m having a hard time pronouncing their real names well at least one of them oh boy hey one of them but she told me we can call her Chi-Chi don’t call her Chi-Chi i’m gonna let her introduce herself and her whole name bethany i got Bethany i can get Bethany out and there’s no there’s no acronym there’s no cheat on that one i got Bethany but Chi-Chi is going to tell us her name they’re both here they’re with an organization called Project Noir and the name of their organization is Enlightened Solutions
00:00:33 which is a think tank of women I believe yes yes of women all women who’s looking for solutions on all kinds of levels and they’re going to talk to us about one of their last projects that they did is Project Noir and some of the results of it i followed this project a few years ago when it first came out i read it in the newspaper i thought it was very interesting because of the fact it talked about um how it was hard for African-American women living in the city of Cleveland and um not to just spin it anything but first thing I thought like hell if it’s
00:01:08 hard for them the brothers must got it terrible Jesus if they’re in the bottom and we below them then I don’t know and and it got me to thinking that if that’s the case then is Cleveland a good place for us to live at all and so that was one of the big things that came out of and hopefully hopefully through all of this research they’re doing on women that we’ll come out with some answers hopefully that we can even get some for the brothers as we go as well so without further ado I want to introduce Miss Chi-Chi i want her to pronounce your name because she has a really good
00:01:38 name she has a good first name in the lab i She’s going to pronounce it and Bethany to our program everybody have a voice and calls me that is my name uh Chi-Chi and Chemra and I am the director of strategy and co-founder of Enlightened Solutions and just like you said we are a 501c3 think tank pronounce it again your name uh Chi-Chi Inra yes the last name is MRA in camera and the first name is Chi-Chi it’s Chi-Chi yeah so I am getting the first name right yeah chi-chi is perfectly fine it’s like Mikey and Michael and you are the co-founder co-founder and director
00:02:21 of strategy for our organization excellent and we have Miss Bethany hello you’ve got me right you didn’t call me Britney so we’re getting on off on the right foot here now you don’t mess me up now you don’t mess me up i’m gonna stay on now you got me i’m going keep it right you got it you got it don’t say that no more all right we keep I’m Bethany uh Studenik i’m the co-founder and managing director of Enlightened Solutions so happy to be here today thanks for hosting us not a problem brown so Chi-Chi tell us what motivated you to create Project Noir and get that um project
00:02:55 up and off the ground so even before Project Noir uh became our main research project Bethany and I actually started Enlightened Solutions in 2018 basically as uh on a lark honestly at Bethy’s Kitchen Table we had recently just quit our jobs um we were working within the realm of police reform we were working for the Department of Justice and uh we were really looking for a space where women specifically black women would be able to not only be heard but workplace issues would be taken seriously right so as two millennial women we are middle millennials we thought
00:03:35 um this was in our mid20s at this point uh that the workplace was not working for women and specifically for women at our intersections right um Bethany will tell you a little bit more about her background um growing up in Wayne County but I am Kaihaga County through and through i am a first generation American i’m Nigerian-American and I grew up in the far east side suburbs and I went to the Ohio State University loved that experience instead of going to law school I actually did not tell my parents and I became a teacher i became a middle school teacher specifically at Title One
00:04:08 schools so I knew I always wanted to work within my own community the black community specifically um because what my parents had installed in us was this deep love um and necessary for our growth was to give back to the community so when Bethany and I decided to create enlightened solutions we initially came to create a space where women uh were able to be heard about their harassment claims their claims around uh workplace violence issues and essentially by 2020 late 2019 we were fully funded so we were able to quit our jobs again and really dedicate time to what this
00:04:50 endeavor was and at that time Bethany had sent me a news article from City Lab Bloomberg that said in bold red letters I will never forget said Cleveland worst place in America for black women and I think I messaged her something kind of shady like “Girl get off my phone.” Like duh yeah like why are you telling me that you know this I know this we’ve been working together I don’t know tell me something I don’t know and she was like you know somebody should do something about this and I was like yeah girl somebody who said who wrote the article or who what was
00:05:22 it where did it come from so it initially came out of research from the university so a sociologist was doing anti-poverty research essentially attempting to look at all cities that had um large populations of poverty and wanted to realize and create policy around that essentially stating that uh the real reason for poverty is this class divide and if you study it you’ll be able to eradicate it what she slowly found out maybe not even halfway through her research was poverty is not created by poverty it’s a series of
00:05:55 uh actions that are created by the government people policy and what she specifically found was poverty is exacerbated by race and gender at the same exact time so back to your point you said Cleveland’s the worst for black women it must be worse for black men actually no actually no oh that’s why we That’s why we went out here because that’s been on Listen I know ever since I read I told you from day one so it’s I get it yes and it’s mainly around healthcare issues i know oh no okay no problem
00:06:40 you are perfectly fine let me find I thought they had the votes to pass it i was mad about it you already know Chuck Schumer he’s been on my list long time he’s not doing what he used to do i know my uh Adriana my has been froed for the last because of us a right she can find a job actually the job market is not moving a second job obviously like working she was trying to do some strategic something for like the Coen Powell Oh nice yeah for her you were like girl you a Republican it works for her hey you got to do what you got
00:07:27 to do in this climate like money yeah and they closed the entire nobody is getting paid it’s gonna have ripple effects this is like because of the new stuff that’s going on yeah my best friend used to work for a US aid she was pretty high up in international development all of their jobs are on Yeah there’s just an order to bring back the probationary period employees yep that’s what you think they just had a court order but we’ll see if it’ll happen was she probationary no she’s been there for a while for us a at least seven years i can’t remember if there’s
00:08:08 litigation now around us it’s actually kind of crazy wow like you have a security clearance like locked him out of the building you know it’s it’s so wild when my wife not in other lately it’s just every like endless i’m getting text from her she 5:00 in the morning working out Texas it’s every day now there’s chaos there’s something new and I told him stuff like what you just you couldn’t if you wouldn’t have told me it was somebody like it didn’t happen i know they couldn’t do that to me now her whole office is gone just can’t believe it it’s crazy
00:08:56 it’s it’s so crazy i hate that happened because you was right in my wheel we about to start rolling so we got to get it right back we’re going to start around that area around where you say Africa this is not African so uh just backtracking a little bit it’s more about the research that was happening so the research out of the University of Pittsburgh was essentially anti-poverty research okay trying to study which regions have the worst poverty rates and how can policy alleviate it right but what she ended up finding out was that policy is man-made and
00:09:30 poverty is man-made and more than that healthc care issues workplace issues are stemming from it that intersect with both race and gender at the same time but specifically and hyper specifically for black women so just like you stated earlier it’s not that black men do not have it bad they have different issues some of them align with black women some of them do not but around these issues for workplaces healthcare and education nationwide black women in Northeast Ohio have it the worst in the country and it’s because of those three focus areas and my suspicion as a researcher
00:10:11 is probably because of the fatality issues around black maternal healthcare you know I was about to say that i was going to ask you cuz I heard health what was the other ones workplaces and education so I would imagine health the number one it’s well for our research it’s really places that we get a lot of getting all my stuff but healthcare has the most I would say the most traumatic Okay stories are the highest and the stakes are the life and death yeah do know that they do a big study on that for women with babies um having we have the highest number of black maternal health
00:10:46 carefality that’s what I was looking for yes and so I figured that’s why I figured health was number one it is because the stakes just like Bethany stated the stakes are higher so it’s not just a black woman is dying or a child is dying when you start thinking about it is um a generation is lost okay so a complete gener generation for that person for that individual is gone so yes the workplace issues are normally how people tend to find our work um but the stakes are the highest in healthcare just because it includes that bodily harm the trauma the mental health
00:11:24 component and then sometimes death so Bethany in your view how does project new challenge the status quo that are aimed to create real lasting changes for black in northeast thanks for that question that’s a great question um when I first saw the study like Chi-Chi talked about I sent it over to her and we started talking and you know I started talking with local leaders and asking you know what are we going to be doing about this and how do we want to address this as a community and a lot of what I heard from white folks folks who look like me was a lot of lamenting it was well
00:11:57 we don’t know why we’re at the bottom we don’t know what is the cause um we don’t know how to address this maybe we’ll hold a conversation or a forum but there was no substantive project to address this and I was frustrated with that um so part of project noir from my perspective is about holding folks accountable to these behaviors these systemic inequalities don’t come out of nowhere right it’s not like this is just this ausive conversation that’s something that nothing we can do about right systemic inequality is created through a bunch of choices that we make
00:12:28 every day right policy doesn’t walk into a room and discriminate against someone it’s a person right so every single thing that we’re seeing it is created through choice after choice decision after decision that people are making in these institutions and they tend to be people who look like me so part of project noir was about how do we map and measure those behaviors those tactics that are creating these systemic problems and how do we hold people accountable to it right so with project noir when now I’m having conversation with folks who look like me the conversation
00:12:58 when they say well I don’t know what we’re doing I don’t know what we’re doing wrong I can hand in this and say these are the things I need you to stop doing these are the things we need to build systems around to make sure that we eradicate these behaviors we challenge these behaviors we train alternative methods in these behaviors we build KPIs around these behaviors so that we can have accountability around this um it’s built to tell the story from the perspective of black women so that institutions can make changes to that behavioral interpersonal problem that we’re seeing
00:13:28 creating these issues so I’m I’m gonna go back to a question with you Chi-Chi on this healthc care thing and because we’re going to lead into the actual project itself sure um what are some of the most disturbing insights you find as it relates to women in healthcare sure i can definitely state that the two two parts to this question so number one um speaking overall for Project Noir the word that was utilized the most the first time uh that we uh did Project Noir back in 2020 was that black women are not given grace that’s the word that black women thematically utilized and
00:14:08 these are women that have never met each other this survey is completely and 100% anonymous but black women that were taking the survey in Lraine black women that were taking the survey in Hudson Garfield Heights in Huff were all using the word I don’t have grace when I walk into these clinics when I walk into these hospital systems I am not given grace i am sick i am chronically ill or I’m going here for a checkup and yet and still my medical provider the receptionist the uh uh security personnel at the desk are not giving me grace as a black woman right so for
00:14:45 the health care stories specifically speaking on maternal healthc care uh the word that was utilized the most in 2024 was trauma my birthing story was the most traumatic experience i don’t want any more children wow traumatic was the word that was utilized it could be anything from um lactation specialists not listening to black women who are asking for help to to nurse it could be anything from uh a lack of informed consent so when a a medical professional is telling you about the procedure that they’re going to do they don’t tell black women the entirety of the procedure or
00:15:23 they leave out certain things maybe because they believe oh you won’t understand it still not informed consent you’re you have to do that legally um or they’re telling black women shades of things or ignoring their pain tolerance pain management was a huge thing so for many of the stories healthc care stories they are heightened because black women are going into these hospital systems and we have four major ones within this footprint here including um our federal health care system uh that are not listening to the needs of black women when they are going through things
00:15:57 that are traumatic whether it’s birthing stories whether it’s chronic illness MS pain management um black women are not being heard within our systems and just like Bethany stated many of these um academics these medical professionals the uh uh administrators are saying “Oh wo is me we don’t know what to do.” Well you do know what to do we’ve mapped it not just statistically but narratively from the voices of black women so let me let’s come because I’m going go back to something you said you said including the ones we have in our system here because hell this study
00:16:31 is about Cleveland so I guess that is Cap they are named they’re named we did them a favor as a think tank by not naming them publicly wow but every single of the four major hospital systems all of them are named and they’re named in horrific stories terrible stories and this don’t have anything to do with um um insurance money or anything did this the same people coming in getting that same type of treatment whether they were bringing in their welfare getting the baby done that way versus uh my wife or anybody who got healthc care who was coming in there women were
00:17:09 being still treated cuz I heard they said even Serena Williams said a few things during her thing that she felt that her process or people even I just again you know we were just talking earlier that you hear some stuff you better not happen to you money does not insulate you again back to the original study the sociologists thought “Oh if you can just alleviate poverty and get out of that class you will be fine.” I’m a black woman from Pepper Pike i’m a classed black woman the same lived experiences that a woman from Pepper Pike is going to have the same healthc care experiences
00:17:45 that a woman in Akran or a woman in Warren or a woman in Yria is having because it genuinely does not there is very little statistical daylight between your level of education um your class uh how many resources you have the issue is again going down a brass tax it’s race and it’s gender and specifically the intersection of antilack uh racism and massage noir which is antilack sexism specifically for black women so what do noir mean you’re saying that I sorry I finally heard you in massage noir so what does that mean well you’ll be happy to hear that Kimberly uh Krenshaw who is an
00:18:28 attorney she’s actually a northeast Ohio native um she has talked about this this this idea of intersectionality and mis massage noir it’s basically sexism that specifically hits black women so it’s antilack sexism that only happens to black women so both Bethany and I experience different kinds of sexism right and we’ll we can talk a little bit more about it in healthcare but the type of sexism that I receive as a black woman specifically a dark-skinned black woman is very different than the kind of sexism she experiences as a white woman absolutely so let’s switch to
00:19:04 you a little bit Bethany let’s talk about the workplace uh got some information out of your report where we talked about how African-American women and I imagine women in general are in the workplace a report mentioned of retaliation sabotage and isolation can you speak to how these issues hinder women and African-American women specifically in the workplace absolutely examples what you got yeah absolutely i’ve got some statistics and stories here around workplaces and um we’re seeing this is a really prevalent problem across Northeast Ohio it is leading to
00:19:39 brain drain in our region black women are deciding to go elsewhere um because of the challenges that they’re facing in our local workplaces 72% of our participants were subjected to comments or debate about racism sexism or other issues a lot of those stories are not people asking polite questions right not asking “Can you educate me a little bit about this particular issue?” It’s a lot of folks being kind of aggressive you know this doesn’t really exist this isn’t really a problem um and the expectation that black women are going to be educating others is an unfair
00:20:09 expectation in and of itself um a story here is being asked by a white owner of a company if he needed to hire more white staff to attract white clientele then being part of a mass layoff of black staff and replaced with white staff also being accused of theft which is something that we saw as well we saw lies and accusations we saw unfair standards we see being passed over for jobs and promotions we see unfair pay um across the sector and I’m also an employment attorney i do a litigation in this space and so I see it every day right and when we talk with folks I
00:20:44 think sometimes they think oh these are problems that are kind of we’re moving past no they’re very very very prevalent in our local institutions which is why we’re doing this work 67% of our participants were called angry or aggressive at work and that was a statistic that the community asked us to ask in project no 2024 we didn’t ask this in 2020 and I had a lot of women come up to me over time and say I need you to ask about this Because at work I’m often called these names it’s code for something else right it’s coded language and often we see it happening in two ways either
00:21:18 um someone is targeting that woman and so they want to undermine her credibility before she reports something or she’s about to report something or they’re responding to a report and they’re saying “Oh well she’s always angry she’s always aggressive.” Nearly 70% of our participants have been called that right exclusion is a script in Cleveland it is something that’s predictable it is measurable and therefore it is changeable explain that a little more absolutely uh when I talk about this right I think sometimes people think oh it’s kind of all over the map when we
00:21:48 talk with black women 90% of our participants we ask them what did you do whenever you felt like you were dealing with systemic exclusion or you’re being pushed out of a system 90% of our participants blamed themselves right so for a lot of women the experience is to internalize this and believe what people are telling you about yourself it hits your self-esteem it makes you feel isolated it makes you feel like you’re less than what’s powerful about Project Noir is that if 70% of our participants and we have over 1300 participants if they’re hearing the same words
00:22:21 to describe them it’s not your fault it’s the system it’s a script this is how exclusion is and when I talk to folks who hone in on and use those exclusionary tactics I tell them this is not inventive right this is not something that you’re coming up with it’s not even a basis that um feels even real because I see it over and over and over again as an exclusionary tactic directed at a particular group using particular language and so what’s important about Project Noir is that if we’re able to measure it we’re able to build tools to change it and hold people accountable
00:22:52 we have to be able to see something in order to change something you know I was this because that is a thing you know because if it ain’t angry woman it would be angry black man exactly yep and it’s cold it’s um all those other things you talked about as it relates to people just putting a narrative out there in the atmosphere to try to describe a different person and some of it is like you say it could be even just that sometimes just speaking up for yourself yes yes when you’re speaking up for yourself oh you angry or if you’re animated a little bit a little louder
00:23:28 because you’re expressing yourself because you are excited sometimes it’s excitement you know that you know finally you want to ask me about what’s been bothered yeah and you’re responding to something it’s normal to have feelings that I’m a victim of sometimes when I I talk and if I get excited I talk very loud and very strong and and some people think okay why you yelling at really yelling I’m just really excited but here’s the second part about that is this idea that uh when we’re in the workplace white excitement is seen as normal right it’s seen as perfectly
00:24:04 fine this person is a go-getter this person is animated this person is passionate That is exactly what I inhabit this body or even to a lesser extent but still white women also get this this framing as well is oh my gosh she’s too much she’s not a cultural fit and I’m going to look directly here and tell you that those phrases right this individual is not a cultural fit or this individual is a DEI hire or a DEI candidate those are slurs and specific specifically that what we have unearthed in project noir is they are hypersp specific slurs towards black women
00:24:46 we ran the Google analysis right the Google trends analysis from 2022 to I think it was April 2024 i ran the analysis to see how many times black women are called DEI hires in the news just a regular Google trend it skyrocketed it is not the same for white women it is not the same for white men it is not the same for black men so why is it that black women are constantly seen as unworthy of the success that they have gained and why is it that we are so ready to knock down their experience their expertise their education and say “Oh well she’s just a DEI hire.” And we are very
00:25:25 firm in our organization by not calling it DEI you need to call it the full phrase you need to say “I am anti-diversity.” Then you are anti-equity you are anti-inclusion say it fully because if you are bold enough to say the slur you need to be bold enough to say the actual word you need to say the entire phrase what you mean is you are antilack woman and if you don’t say it fully then you’re kind of chicken well well to your point I guess to say it you have to stay you have to say it i mean go and own it if you don’t want to own it then why are you ready to eradicate it you’re
00:26:01 afraid of something because you are afraid to look into your own reflection and the biggest part that we have uncovered in project noir is this idea that the demographics are shifting and America is scared for some reason there are more women with education what is it in law school the first time this year more women have graduated from law school than men for the first time in American history right black women have always worked but we are now in positions of power management directors owning our own businesses when we no longer want to fit within the mold of corporate
00:26:32 America or nonprofits it’s this idea that oh no now my manager is a woman they might do to me what I have been doing to them so it’s the fear it’s a fear but it’s unfounded but is the fear really um is the fear women in general oh yes oh yeah white or black just fear of women we specifically focus on black women but this does not mean that things are great for white women and that’s the thing that we’re trying to wake up and when I say I say the fear there’s a fear that um some believe that
00:27:08 people don’t want to see the country become what they say the browning of America at some point and they’re saying that you know that there’s not enough white men in the country so you know a lot of this is to push to get more white men so my question is is the real fear not all of that the real fear is women because maybe it is that it is women is the largest biggest population of out is it outpacing the uh Hispanic movement is out that’s where you understand what I’m trying to Yeah it’s it’s a it’s a lot of factors so we talk about this in terms of highly radically
00:27:44 intersectional right so 48% of generation Z and Gen Z is just in their 20s right now they’re kind of entering the workforce they’re coming out of college 48% of Gen Z is racially and ethnically diverse by 2045 there won’t be a racial majority in America anymore right women are outpacing 2045 it probably will happen soon i probably white people are not marrying each other i mean who wants to right uh but so we have the racial changes right then we have what’s happening with women right women are right now outpacing men in terms of college degrees for the first time ever
00:28:18 we’re having access like Chi-Chi said like we’ve never had before 30 40 years ago Chi-Chi and I wouldn’t even be able to open a bank account to open our institution this is radical the fact that we’re able to sit here and have this conversation uh 33% of Gen Z is LGBTQ right so we are seeing massive changes in terms of the demographics in our country and we we posit that a lot of what we’re seeing right now is a reaction to that change is already here right what we’re doing right now is reckoning with that and figuring out what the social order is when
00:28:49 all of this is shifting but we root this in I’m often asked like why are you doing this work as a white woman my response I’m still being my person and it should be right but the answer is that when black women thrive I thrive right when we think about things like the civil rights We think about affirmative action the biggest beneficiaries have been white women right so if I’m going to think about limited time limited resources where am I going to focus my energy i’m going to focus that on black women because I want all women liberated i don’t want oppression
00:29:19 alive in any form if we leave oppression alive in any form it grows back it comes back and it reopresses us and so my work is about making sure that we root it out at the at the base i want to get into this it say project no war 2024 report isn’t just about documenting problems it’s about creating a road mapap for solutions yes so Chi-Chi what are some of the key recommendations that you have out in your report um that will eliminate some of these action well you hope will help to eliminate It’s more than hope it’s things that I know
00:29:53 okay right so the easiest way to find our call to action would be to go to project noir.org project newirclle.org/calltoaction and there you will find different subsets of where you can tap in so if you are let’s just say a community organization we have a list of advocacy ideas that you can start to implement today and long term if you’re an individual you’re just a community member and you’re like “What how can I get involved?” Right you can tap in right there um if you are a philanthropist if you are a business owner if you are in the healthc care field in the media there
00:30:31 are various different ways we made it easy because we need to meet people where they are right we need to make sure that folks are able to tap in where they are many times in this work especially as an interracial women focused organization folks are like “Chi you just hate Cleveland you just hate Cleveland that’s why you’re always talking about how bad it is here.” And I cannot tell you not only that but I cannot tell you how deeply and passionately Bethany and I love Cleveland we moved to Cleveland i could have very easily just been like I’ll live in Texas and and stay there no I
00:31:09 moved back to Cleveland and more than that I moved to the city right and Bethany lives in the city we are specific about what we believe in because this is where we believe that change can happen right and just thinking as researchers right bethany has a legal mind me as a researcher as an individual as a community-minded individual if I know that the problems are the worst in Cleveland Ohio should I not go to Cleveland Ohio it just so happens to be the place where my American story started where my parents American story started and going back to that that’s the debt that we
00:31:42 pay for being here in this country for being able to be successful you need to give back and reach back to those who are not able to you need to pass a microphone to individuals who have never had the microphone and that’s the importance of Project Noir giving voice to black women because if not this society will just ignore us they’ll say “Black women are fine they’re strong they’re super women they’ll get it done they’re fine right we are not fine we need the entire community to understand that this is a crisis and we need to eradicate it all right ladies i’m gonna
00:32:14 ask you we we’re rounding home we got about 10 to 15 so all of these questions I’m going to ask you I want y’all when y’all answer them look in the camera these are going to be really good questions that we use for social media and stuff okay so I’m gonna start with you Bethany in your opinion what should the role of local government educational institutes and employers play in addressing these disparities and what steps do we need to take to create meaningful change for black women in this region and and if you want to jump in on that question too sure to follow
00:32:46 up i have no problem with that but let’s you guys remember our cameras okay all righty uh in terms of what local institutions can do we really need to be focusing on the granularity right so we if we’re going to make these changes we need to make sure that we’re looking at behavior if we don’t change behavior we’re not changing anything we can write a policy we can have a training we can have a conversation but if we’re not making different choices we’re not going to see changes in terms of systemic outcomes and listen the way that we talk about this we understand there’s a
00:33:16 moral argument here but that’s not where we hang our hat where we hang our hat is the fact that the future is diverse the reality right now is that our country is diversifying more than ever like I talked about before 48% of Generation Z is racially and ethnically diverse women are working more than ever we have more access than ever we are building our economic and collaborative power um we are are more educated than we’ve ever been we are outpacing men in terms of college degrees we see that Gen Z is 33% LGBTQ so the importance here is to understand that in order
00:33:49 to be economically competitive as an individual organization or as a region we have to understand diversity and we have to be investing in it the future talent the future innovation the future inventors are going to be diverse and we have an incredibly diverse community here in Cleveland cleveland is a black majority city if we are ever going to be able to uh invest in our economy here we have to invest in the people here and the people here are diverse and so when we talk with organizations the solutions are really broad right i think about policy I think about training
00:34:22 I think about KPIs I think about data I think about accountability I think about policy um but at the end of the day we have to be investing in this if we want to survive and compete as a region nothing that was perfect economic argument man follow the money follow the money and the money is followed by diverse people that’s it excellent gi you stressed that um time for conversation is over and now the times for action how can an individual in the community leaders take your report and turn
00:34:51 this movement into a push to change the systemics for some systemic changes how can we use this as our tool to do something well definitely get in contact with Enlightened Solutions we can definitely help you customize modify how you would like to speak about this but the most important thing is to share the report black women are sharing their stories they shared with two people they did not even know anonymously so sharing the report sharing the stories and illustrating why this is important not just to you but to the future of this region to the future of Northeast
00:35:26 Ohio is key so again going on our social media reposting pressuring your local city council your county council your regional government agencies individuals that are representing you it is so important for them not only just to say “Oh good job on this report,” but for them to say “What can I do in my own ward that will support black women right what can I do in my own county to support black women?” Again this is not just a Cleveland issue our report is all of Northeast Ohio so when we say Lorraine Alyria Akran Canton Warren all the way up through Uklid Ashtabula Cleveland and
00:36:05 all of the surrounding suburbs we literally mean black women everywhere don’t worry about that um beyond the data noir is about amplifying personal stories of black women the stories are not only reflective of the struggle but they also are resilience for black women in our community um Chi-Chi and Bethany both could you share with a story that you guys may have gotten from your surveys or something that stick out in your mind that you want to kind of talk about either one whichever one going to go first it don’t matter to me sure um so I have an education
00:36:40 theme story mostly because I’m a former middle school teacher i loved school everybody called me Susie High School and I think that civil civilizations are one and lost within how they value education right and within our region we are doing ourselves such a disservice when we are um you know alienating black women or isolating black women who are attempting to receive an education um I had one project noir story that really hit me in the heart where um an individual was talking to her professor and she says “A teacher asked me about my experience in the hood
00:37:18 uh during my economics class right just alienating her in the class having the entire class look at back at her and tell me tell me what it’s like to grow up in the ghetto.” that had nothing to do with the class but it had everything to do with alienating her and embarrassing her within her within her classmates and and within her um education path another one um you know black women are expected to educate their peers right about social issues so very similarly to the workplace right is a classmate saying “I don’t believe that racism exists right uh I
00:37:50 don’t I don’t call you a slur so racism doesn’t exist tell me why it’s racist when I do this.” And it’s not the purpose of getting educated it’s a purpose of actually tearing down that black woman’s story or that black girl story and it starts young we are not insulated from these experiences so young black women are recalling experiences from when they’re six seven from the time that they’re passing through their elementary schools where teachers administrators peers and classmates are isolating them in the education system which leads black girls to withdrawing
00:38:24 within themselves and not necessarily feeling that they have a home within the education system i will add you know going back to the conversation around 67% of our participants being called angry or aggressive at work that’s something that always sticks with me because um as a woman right we have expectations too where uh we’re always expected to be kind of dainty and approachable and likable and I don’t know I’m 5 foot 10 I’m a lawyer I come in I have things to say right and so uh I’ve gotten that feedback myself but um one woman talked about
00:38:56 when she presented she provided a thorough and detailed overview of her information however after her presentation the white judges criticized her for being aggressive despite the fact that others had presented less detailed information there’s nothing like being a woman and coming in being overprepared agonizing over what you’re going to present and how you’re going to be perceived and doing everything that you possibly can to fit the standards of femininity and beauty that’s expected of you and then to get the feedback that we didn’t hear anything you said
00:39:27 um we didn’t like how you said it and therefore we’re going to discredit everything about you um when you’re trying to defend a thesis or make an argument or present yourself in court or on and on and on this undermines our ability to be effective in every setting and for black women it’s even more pronounced almost 70% of our participants have had this this experience at work and it’s by design it’s to discredit our impact and to ensure that we are not effective even when we come and we overprepare and we hit every mark and we’re perfect it’s still a way to
00:40:02 uh dehumanize us uh Chi-Chi as we move forward what are one of the key things you want listeners to remember when they come in creating changes for black sure keep so I’ll speak to black women specifically um as a sister right as another black woman you are not alone and then secondly you are not to blame systems are designed and have been designed for centuries now to exclude not just our experience within them but our expertise and um our knowledge right uh you are not alone when you are experiencing these these experiences and that black women collectively can support each other
00:40:49 by again placing this survey out there placing the information uh that we’ve gleaned from this report out there and making sure that other black women who have not had access either to take the survey or to know about it know how to protect themselves so getting in contact with Enlightened Solutions reading the report sharing it with your sisters is so important uh for black women to know and more than that for black women to understand that you’re not by yourself project Noir is for you it’s for black women but more than that it’s for our community to stand behind black women as well
00:41:23 and Bethany and how can you ensure that the findings of this report is not going to just be uh just uh paper that we sit on is actually going to be used for tangible actions in it so we always we work really hard to ensure that uh systems understand that this isn’t something uh that lives you know online and you read it once and you never come back to it again this is supposed to be something that you’re coming back and reflecting on your own behavior the behavior of the folks in your organization and your managers and I will say listen as a lawyer something that I tell
00:41:57 people is this is a great way to avoid liability i can’t tell you how many of the things that I see in Project Newir are things that I’m actually litigating on a daily basis this is a great way to get in trouble is annoy is ignoring these things um I’ve referred out malpractice claims right so when we’re talking about healthcare that’s another area where we see liability so there are a lot of different ways that Chi-Chi and I think about this i think about the legal system i think about policy we think about the economics as well if you want a competitive organization this is what you
00:42:27 need to be thinking about your future clients your future talent the future people who are going to be building and thinking about your organization are going to be diverse and I got to tell you too something that’s happening right now is that I see folks creating their own competition right because they are pushing black women out they’re pushing women out they’re pushing people of color out of these institutions we have no other choice but then to start competing organizations and what I forecast and I’m always right uh is that in the next 10 15 20 years we’re going to see a surge of
00:42:59 uh new organizations founded by and for women and people in other minority groups and I got to tell you we’re really good at doing a lot with a little um and so I have a feeling that we’re going to see a lot of competition for systems that refuse to adjust today teach here’s our last question before we go get into our closing and so when we get in our closing I’m going to let ask you a question then we’re going to let you close then we’ll know how you close okay so teacher your last question is this what’s the next steps for project noir and how do you plan to keep the momentum
00:43:30 going and continue to advocate for black women rights clea awesome so next steps are twofold for everyone at home for all organizations civic leaders anybody that is interested in actually eradicating these um these issues for black women the next step for you is to head to project noir.org/calltoaction and see where you fit if you are a civic leader you need to be heading to project newir.com uh.org if you are an individual you need to be heading to project noir uh clle.org you need to figure out where you fit and then get to it right contact us if you have any questions
00:44:10 if you have any ability to uh connect uh other organizations or other uh fields definitely do that that but then secondly always connect with us online by subscribing to our newsletter we have a ton of really great programming that will be coming up in the latter half of spring specifically for black women that we are very very excited about uh programs that deal with health and wellness mental health um and then later on in the year uh programs that deal with workplace issues education issues we are always finding ways uh to collaborate with the community so
00:44:45 definitely staying up with enlightened solutions on our newsletter online would be the best place to start and then also heading to our call to action right so what we do like we do with most of our programs we end our program by letting you guys get an opportunity to talk to the camera and tell the peoples i have millions and millions and millions of viewers out there that watch this program and so you get a chance to talk to those people and express to them what you want to say whatever is on your heart you make sure you again leave all contact information how they can reach
00:45:17 out to you guys and that be go ahead you go first just act like you’re talking old Zeke right there and if you if you’re speaking to him you’ll be speaking right to that camera awesome well uh with Project Noir and the work that we’re doing you know we’ve talked extensively about the economic case the need for this but I’ll just say through this work um through working with black women and building community around women’s issues i’ve really learned that um when we work together we all thrive um I often see folks approaching advocacy work and kind of worrying about their
00:45:48 own intersections almost exclusively what I really encourage you to do as an organizer and as an advocate is to think about how we find and build solidarity and alignment that is the only way we’re going to make progress right my liberation is not necessarily a black woman’s liberation but a black woman’s liberation is my liberation right and so when I think about this I think about how we work together and how we build bridges um additionally I would just say we’re really interested in helping to build 21st century systems so if you’re someone who’s interested in
00:46:19 being economically competitive if you’re someone that’s interested in building systems that uh refute and change the status quo we’re here right the world is changing rapidly and we need systems to do so as well um so I’d encourage you to contact us and reach out i will also say we’re doing a lot of work this year in terms of community building so if you’re here in Northeast Ohio we look forward to seeing you at some of our upcoming events we are planning some really awesome uh conversations and so we’re excited to keep organizing and pushing this message forward
00:46:50 i think that the most important takeaway that I can give for this particular conversation is hyperdirected at our civic leaders our regional civic leaders and our philanthropy class here in Cleveland um I want to remind folks that black women are a part of our democracy and are a part of our civic leadership as well and the quote um that I am always reminded of comes from the Reverend Dr martin Luther King Jr who states that budgets are moral documents again budgets are moral documents wherever your the majority of your budget lies that is where your morality lies
00:47:32 that is where you think the most important things within your organization within your um civic sector actually is if that does not include black women in a city that is 50% black overwhelmingly so black then you are missing the mark we are creating a space where our region is going to end up not being com competitive on a national scale so I’d like to express to our philanthropy class to our civic leaders to understand that investing in black women is investing in the stability of this region you are investing in the diversity of thought you are investing in the inclusion of
00:48:13 ideas and you are investing in the equity for not just black women but generations of black families generations that will be living here working here and contributing to the culture the fabric of Northeast Ohio so making sure that folks understand that we are a part of this society and more than that we are a key portion of what makes this society northeast Ohio run so making sure that your budget aligns with black women is going to be key excellent again I want to thank you um Chi-Chi and Bethany for joining us on today’s show it’s important that uh this work that
00:48:50 you guys are doing is very important and to all our listeners out there we asking you all to be a part of the solution visit projectnurcle um.org that’s projectnneurle.org or RG and read the full report and listen and check out the podcast and listen to everything that they’re talking about in this podcast it’ll be helpful and go to the website check out their report and read it for yourself and if you want to do something and get more involved with what they’re doing all you have to do is reach out to them and let them know and they’ll connect you and get you all in we’re going
00:49:22 to have them on from time to time just to get some more information to keep up with what they’re doing they’re doing some good work over there as relates to some of the um u reports that they’re doing we going to ask them to try to help us get some reporting to help out some of the brothers too cuz we need some help too so we going to go work with them on all of that i appreciate the work you guys are doing with the consent decree i know not the consent decree we did that was a 10 years ago yeah but I was really talking about the commission on African-American women you guys are
00:49:53 involved in that as well you um put that together my last question and I should have put this in there but I’m gonna ask you guys and this will be our last question people we signing off after this question question is all this reporting and everything was you guys surprised that the country did not vote for Kamla Harris how do you want to address this surprised surprised no no not at all no not at all i I find it uh endlessly frustrating I would say specifically because we know that very I mean Project Noir could have been written for Kla Harris this is
00:50:30 a woman that was in all branches of government has been excellent her entire life from all aspects nobody has ever said that this woman has not been dedicated to her career to her education to her community um but surprised no uh but what what I will say is that this country has to do a lot of soulsearching and it’s not just because uh from a personal note that was my candidate of choice it’s mostly because if we are okay with foregoing excellence in this country right then where is our country actually going that is probably my uh that is my biggest issue around there that that that is
00:51:12 Yeah that’s the most legit one I didn’t heard we got that’s going to be hard to beat right there that’s why I wouldn’t want to beat it no uh the only thing I’ll add is that you know this the shifting demographics in America this isn’t a surprise we’re at a turning point and when we’re at a turning point uh things tend to get difficult right we’re having conversations we’re trying to figure out how we operate in this new reality and I think sometimes we lose sight of how quickly society has changed you know we’re both millennials we grew up pre- internet which is like
00:51:42 prehistoric to kids these days right it’s hard to even think about the world is changing so rapidly every single day and so we expect disruption and we expect difficult conversations and we expect back and forth the thing I say an advocate is that the pendulum always swings right every time that we make progress there’s going to be resistance it’s not advocacy work if there’s not resistance i say as an advocate if I’m not making somebody mad I’m not pushing hard enough right so at the end of the day uh surprise no absolutely not but we do think that there is a future here but we
00:52:15 need to be working together and that’s why we hit the intersectional lens so hard because we are up against a lot right now and so we need to be thinking about each other and building community in radical ways hey I got a question go ahead this is for Bethany now as a white woman do you get any flack for being so pro black woman you know and you know pushing these projects along with Chi-Chi chi-chi’s chuckling the answer is yes yeah quite a bit yeah I get a lot of push back i’m uh pretty accustomed to it i’m from a rural area originally i’m originally from Wayne County i
00:52:55 was rural i was very rural very rural driving out there what where are you wayne County okay there’s nothing out there uh so yeah I’m I’m from a rural area i’m from a evangelical upbringing i was homeschooled up until college and I came out into the world and I saw what the world really was and uh I changed my mind on a lot of things so I’m someone who’s come from very traditional upbringing to to who I am today and I face a lot of resistance in my own community about that you know people don’t understand they don’t understand the intersectionality but when I talk to white
00:53:26 women and they read Project Noir they say “Well I went through that too.” And I go “Well great then we should be working together shouldn’t we?” Right at the end of the day but you know again we see folks kind of struggling with that and struggling to reach across the aisle and struggling to build empathy for other folks and that’s why I hit that so hard all the time but yeah definitely get push back and like I said as an advocate if I’m not if I’m not making somebody uncomfortable I’m not
00:53:49 happy with myself right i want to keep pushing i will add to this um I was laughing so so hard about it because she’s being really kind about the adversity that she’s faced from other white women more broadly white folks in general um when you are a white woman in this space especially as a black woman the first thing to do is to be suspicious like why is she here like why are you doing this work for real and then many times folks will pull me aside why is she really doing this work and I have to explain to people that there is a foundational connection between Bethany and I we
00:54:26 have the same values it’s this idea that you don’t start with the easiest problem you start with the hardest so when Bethany goes inside these rooms that are majority white if not all white because she mostly handles that um she is telling them to their face you’re not doing the best that you can and you should be doing better you are actually sitting on your hands you should be doing more at your intersections and challenging people directly to their face looking like them coming from situations that are sometimes worse than than they have ever experienced and telling them that
00:55:03 they have every opportunity to do better actually very radical for somebody to do that and I very much so commend her i’m not giving her extra credit but it is something to be said of when folks are pulling me aside and pulling her aside and asking her a question she gets a lot of flack a lot i can imagine i can imagine good let Yeah that was that that was great actually we going to weave that into the program again so I’m going to ask you another question oh did I do my closing i thought you No I did let me do a closing just in case all right
00:55:44 all right i want to thank you guys again for coming in on our program you did an excellent job you educated us on everything we need to know and people we’re going to put every way you can reach them in the description um on this program so you’ll be able to get the website and how you can reach out and get more information about Enlightened Solutions enlightened Solutions they have all the solutions folks they have all they’re smart people over there and they got all the answers so you want to go there and get some
00:56:13 information from them or if you got something you want them to do a study on or any of that kind of thing or research that’s what they do so if you got a issue or you got something you think is interesting give them a call talk to them and maybe it’s something they might want to take up for themselves yeah so again want to thank you guys for tuning in to our program we’ll have all that information in description and we’ll see y’all the next week peace