Peter Jones The Man Who Can't Be Put In A Box | Strategic Moves #48

[00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, you’re rocking with a goat. Ken Dow giving you motivation for growth. Two toes down. He keep it villa than most. He do it for the culture. That’s always the goal.

This is strategic moves with Dow. This is strategic moves. Hey, what’s up? What’s up everybody? You tuned into another episode of Strategic Moves. I’m your host, Ken, do. This is a place where we bring art, culture, politics, and business all together. We do it every Sunday right here on this channel. Today is all about arts.

I got somebody though, who’s in our studio today who text box and everything. We talk about art, culture, politics, and business. Got a guy here today who checks every one of those boxes. He’s been in our community doing all of those things for the last over 20 years, and he’s here today to share some of his experience with us and talk about some of his latest projects.

And if you don’t know, this [00:01:00] guy is, I’m gonna let you check out this little video. Hi, I’m Peter Lawson Jones, and I want to thank you for viewing my video reel. Kick this out. Cool. Yep. Northern Pipe, but not just any pipe. It’s the baddest pike that’s ever come out of this lake. The locals call him Wes Wicked.

Wes, you know, the people around these parts say that that fish will bring your luck if you throw ’em back in after you catch ’em. Now, I’m not much for old wives tales, but a month after I wrangled him in, I became the owner of this place, and life’s been treating me pretty good ever since. Never forget where you come from because it is who you are and who you will become as a productive member of our society.

I wish you all the best and brightest futures. I know that you are [00:02:00] capable of accomplishing anything you set your mind to. Woo, beat that nigga down. So again, congratulations and best wishes, right? Excuse me guys, I’m sorry, but could you please keep it down just a little? I’m, I’m, I’m trying to get some work done here.

Please. Thank you.

Don’t come in me again.[00:03:00]

So if you don’t know, now you know everybody. Let’s welcome Mr. Peter Lawson Jones p LJ program. How you doing? I’m doing fine today. Spending a little time with my long time friend, Ken Doll, who’s been on the battlefield with me in politics over the years. Mm-hmm. So it’s good to be on strategic moves. Oh, thank you for inviting me.

No problem. No problem, man. You know, you one of these people who’ve been in our community doing a lot of things, a show. It is a place where I say I kind of put things together to bring on people. I found interesting to talk about topics that there, hopefully there’s something somebody can pick up from it and utilize it in there you go.

Their business or their personal life. So Peter, I hope I can drop at least one pearl of wisdom over the next few minutes. Listen, I’ll tell everybody, you check every one of those boxes, we gonna start checking them because we, you, you got a lot of territory. What do you wanna start with? We gonna start with the politics of it all.

Cause politics is where [00:04:00] everything Nope, we gonna start from the beginning because I have millions and millions of. Viewers all around the world that watched this show. Okay. You know, and so everybody don’t know who you are. Like we, I hope you got a couple of casting directors that are watching. So they cast me in future fields.

You never know. That’s what I’m saying. We never know who might, I’m gonna be on my best behavior. Right. We gonna really show ’em that you got talent. So just stick this out. Let’s talk about where you start. You from Shaker Heights. Have you always lived in Shaker Heights or, I was born in Mount Sinai Hospital right in, uh, the center of Cleveland.

Mm-hmm. My family and I lived in the Glenville area until I was about in ninth grade. Then we moved to Shaker. I graduated Shaker Heights High School. Then I had, I was fortunate enough to have been admitted to Harvard College. I majored in government there, and I might add graduated Magna Cumula kind of problem.

You know, we ain’t gonna let you. Feed through this cuz Peter, you an impressive guy. And first of all, I told Latif and I told my daughter Kenny, who produced the show, I want me one of those little airhorns because e e every time I get a guest on God, gotta ask my family, give me [00:05:00] that for birthday present.

I’d love to have an air horn. I need be one of those things. No little buttons, man. Cause I, I, I wanna go ahead and press, cause one thing is for cert, almost every guest that come through our show, as some way or another, has them work their way through Glenville community on. Off to other things. So it is never surprising when I talked to someone, they say they started off, their roots were in Glen, their roots were in Glenville, and then they kind of moved on.

And so, well, Glenville was quite the community. Uh, when I was growing up there in the late fifties and in the sixties, I lived on Osceola app. Yeah, no, exactly where that is. As a matter of fact, the back of my house, ab butted that of Judge Charles Patton. Okay. And two doors down from Charles Patton was Zeke four.

It was a great community. And what I remember the most about is that although by the time we moved on the street, the last of the Jewish families and white families were moving out. As a matter of fact, initially our councilman was, uh, Mr. Goldstein, as I recollect. Wow. And then who succeeded him? George.

Four. So the neighborhood was changing, but although Osceola Avenue was. Predominantly, if not all African American by the time. Mm-hmm. We moved [00:06:00] on, there was a great socioeconomic diversity on the street. Mm-hmm. So there may have been a family that was struggling, but next door to them was somebody who worked at the Ford factory.

Correct. Next door to them, somebody worked at the post office next door to them. Mm-hmm. A teacher, as a matter of fact, my mother was a teacher, my dad was a chemist. Mm-hmm. Next door to them was a dentist. Mm-hmm. Next door to them was the person who owned the corner store. Right. Right. Not just worked there, but owned it.

So there were a lot of things that no matter what your personal situation was, no matter what your family situation was mm-hmm. You could benefit from somebody living in that community. Mentors were right there, role models. Mm-hmm. Were right on that street. It was a very different time in Cleveland. Of course, this was before there was integration of the suburbs.

Okay. And so whether you were working class, middle class, poor, upper middle class, you were living on the same street, interacting with each other and benefiting from the association. So people, yeah, brothers and sisters. I’m the only one. I’m the alpha, the I’m the Omega. Right. Really? So I’ve tripled my parents’ output since I’ve got three kids.

Shout out to Ryan, [00:07:00] Leah, and Evan. Wow. Okay. So you’re the only one. I’m the only one. And you say your dad was a chemist and your mom was a teacher? Yes. Now when you say a chemist, was he a school? My, my dad graduated from Ohio University in 1942. Okay. He then went on to serve in the armed services. He was a member of the Tuskegee Airman, you know, and I’d love to talk about my parents.

A blessed member. My dad had an opportunity, he was offered a contract with the Salt Lake City Triple A baseball team. Wow. And had he accepted it, he might have been Jackie Robinson. Really. Because this was before Jackie Robinson. My dad was a great athlete. Mm-hmm. Wonderful human being. And obviously a very smart man, right?

Yeah. He’s, he was a chemist at Standard Oil, what was it? He played in baseball? Outfield. Really? Yeah. He was an outfielder. Good hitter. Yeah. Good hitter. Left-handed hitter right through, right batted lefty. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Uh, six, three and a half. Mm-hmm. Fast. So unfortunately I was a decent athlete, but I had a fraction of his ability, generation skipping talent, I guess I remember he used to play a lot of basketball.

I sure did. I played, uh, full [00:08:00] court basketball until I was 65, dealing with people who were a third or half my age. Yeah, I remember that. He was there. I loved that. P playing basketball. Oh. That’s where I would be if I wasn’t working or hanging out with the family. So, yo dad, he and, and my mother, I should point out, Uhhuh was a Cleveland public school teacher.

She taught at Bolton. Okay. Elementary school on Cedar. She taught first and second grade, and she was what I call that. Old school group of teachers. Okay. So whatever the student’s needs were, if they needed food mm-hmm. She would bring it. She, they needed clothing, she would bring it. They needed a ride home.

They got it. You know, and she would often bring some of her students home, uh, over the weekends to hang out with me. Did she retire? Teacher? She retired as a Truman officer. They called ’em attendance workers. Okay. But she spent the majority of her career with the Cleveland Public School systems. Mm-hmm.

Was as a teacher. Okay. The last maybe 15, 20 years mm-hmm. Was as a truing officer. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. And, and you say your dad decided to go to college and he was the first in his family to attend college. I forgot about that tidbit [00:09:00] because that was something you had shared with everybody in your career.

Let’s talk a little bit about the Tuskegee Airmen portion, a little bit of that and the importance of that as well as. Him going to college to be a Kidman back in those, the first thing, let me say this, there was no moment, a few moments in life where I was more proud than when I had my daughter and my youngest son.

We were at the air show and we went wandered over to the tent where they had a lot of paraphernalia books on the Tuskegee Airmen and I opened up one of the books and there I saw my dad’s picture. Wow. Class of 42 F. That was just, wow. Such a, a wonderful moment for me. But dad, uh, was at ou at a time, Ohio University, at a time when he couldn’t stay in the dorm.

How about to say he went to Ohio University. Right. This was the late thirties, early forties. Right. And fortunately there were a group of white Methodist students who had a co-op and they invited my dad and another black student, George Mills, who became the first principal at John F. Kennedy High School.

Okay. To live in the co-op with them. And these guys stayed in touch with each other throughout the rest of their [00:10:00] life. You know, I feel as, as. Special, uh, warmth in my heart for those students who practiced their Christianity by opening up their co-op to black students at a time when, I don’t know otherwise where they would’ve lived.

Really, really? Right. Because they couldn’t stay in the dorm. And my mom was amongst the first group of African-American women to live in the dorms at Michigan State University. My mom went to OU for a year. That’s where mom and dad met. Okay. But the racism was so thick there. She transferred to Michigan State.

Wow. He handed in there and And stuck it out. Yeah. He stuck it out. Here’s ironic thing, he could not, even though he had played in the Negro Baseball League mm-hmm. He couldn’t play on the baseball team at OU because they had the Southern tour was the most significant part of their schedule being a northern team.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The southern teams would not take the field if you had a black ball player on your team. Wow. So instead he ran chat and became a hurdle champion. Wow. So he knew how to turn lemons into le Aids, to say the least. Wow. So did he do the tutus ski before college or after that? After college.

Right after college. Wow. So he had a degree. Yeah. Well, they didn’t wanna go, go fly airplane. [00:11:00] When, think about it, there were a million African-American men who fought in World War ii. Mm-hmm. And notwithstanding the rights that were being denied at home, there was still a patriotism, which I think exists to this day.

You know, he was filled with certain patriotism, like so many other African-American males at that time. And so, um, he wanted to enlist and do his part. And so he signed up and was blessed enough to be admitted to that exclusive core of men of the Tuskegee airmen. He never ever asked him why he wanted to fly a plane.

I mean, it ain’t like you flying these planes today. It was like, I’m, well, he told me, he told me stories about when they would fly the planes and then they would fly them upside down. Mm-hmm. So, you know, there’s only that little. Top ceiling of the card glass or plastic art, plastic, whatever it was that separated you from, from the ground.

I, I mean, well, he was an extraordinary individual and a lot of courage and curiosity, intellectual curiosity. And, uh, you know, I’m just [00:12:00] proud, I’m so proud to say that he was a, that my dad was a Tuskegee game, so when he got out, he didn’t wanna fly plane. Here’s the interesting thing. I mean, he was in the armed service for a couple of years, uh, and that’s when he had the offer to go to Salt Lake City.

Okay. Uh, AAA baseball team. Okay. All right. But at that time, he was ready to move on with his light. Mm-hmm. He didn’t see any future in baseball. Mm-hmm. At that point, he had done college and the armed services, and he was ready to settle down, get married, and start a family. That’s, so you said chemistry Chemistry was his major.

And I remember going over to, they called, it was called Ohio at the time. Yeah, I remember. And I would go over to those labs off of Broadway. Okay. And he would take me there, you know, some nights when he had to go into work. Mm-hmm. And I, I remember getting, Milkshake Candy bars out of that machine there.

They’re still my favorites. I can’t believe they no longer make milkshake candy. That was better than Milky Way as far as I could concerned. Ok. Alright, I got you. So yeah, and then he became a high school recruiter. Mm-hmm. And then a college recruiter for Standard Oil. He used to travel all over. Okay. The country, especially in the Midwest, [00:13:00] recruiting people to work for a standard oil company.

You know, one of my very first jobs I worked at Ohio, I tell my kids that all the time. I was a full service. Remember when you used to pull up to the gas station? Yeah. You ring, ding, ding, ding, come on out. And we used to change your, uh, check your oil and wipe your windows. And those were the days. Yeah, I used to do that.

And, um, Man, a lot of people doing that man. And then I, I was right on the edge of, I’m telling people I’m old, but just that old, you know, I’m right on the edge for when they just started going in to self-serve. Self-serve. Right. Yeah. Right, right. And it was like, you know, get rid of that. Well, well, you know, if you go in New Jersey mm-hmm.

You still, you can’t pump your own gas in New Jersey. They have yet they have attendance. They come out. Wow. For whatever reason, they don’t, I don’t know if New Jersey’s the only state left that doesn’t allow you to pump your own gas. Wow. I feel kind of lazy when I pull up to a gas station now in New Jersey.

Oh, well you know what if, if they doing everything we used to do, cuz they used to clean your windows and we used to have to check your oil and all that stuff. But now cars you. I wouldn’t even want nobody touching your oil and [00:14:00] stuff in your car. I know. What the things have become so high tech, you know, they don’t, they plant it so that you don’t touch your own oil.

Right, right. You gotta go to the dealership to get that done. Yeah. I worked at, um, yeah, it was so high before they turned it to bp. Yeah. Bp. Right. Yeah. So that’s interesting. And my dad was there for many years and then he was executive director of Neighbors organized for Action and Housing, which built low and moderate income.

Okay. Then he finished his career as an educator. He was athletic director, special assistant to the president, admissions officer at, uh, Dyke College. Wow. That then became Meyers University. Right. Okay. So he was an interesting guy. Absolutely. Very interesting. Both of my parents. Wow. I, I always thought I got my acting ability from my mom.

This is a fact. Had my mom been born 10 years later, she could have been a movie star. She had the beauty, the charisma. Mm-hmm. The sense of humor. She was just fascinating. Wow. And, uh, she told me stories about when she was in a play at the old Central High School. Mm-hmm. And it was, Play, uh, called in the still of the night.

Okay. And, uh, apparently she had a small role in it, but throw the show. So, so if, you know, if Muhammad and Dad, and this is the thing, when we look back on history, this is why you [00:15:00] have to teach history as it is. Mm-hmm. As it really happened. No ch straight, no chaser. Right? Because I think about the opportunities my parents didn’t have because of when they were born.

And these to say the opportunities my grandparents and your grandparents, right? And your parents, right. Didn’t happen. But what they did for me and what I’ve tried to do for my kids, I think any good parent wants their kids to be smarter, more successful. Mm-hmm. Better looking at least as happy as they are.

All right. If they’re happy, that was clearly, uh, you know, I, I don’t know if it was ever, if they ever articulated it. Mm-hmm. But that’s something they wanted for me. They wanted me to enjoy more opportunity than they did. And I have, that’s why they all moved from there and went to Shaker. It’s interesting cuz I was in the major work program at, in the city of Cleveland and Cleveland Public school system.

Mm-hmm. And that was a tremendous program. I worked, everybody I knew who was in cla in, in those classes with me. Mm-hmm. Went on to the top colleges in the United States. Okay. And uh, yeah. You know what? They used to be really big. Oh, the major, what program was it? I worked as hard as that as I did in, when we moved to Shaker, or even in some of my classes at, in college at Harvard.

But my parents saw, you know, things were beginning [00:16:00] to change. They wanted to make sure that I had a solid education. They were either gonna send me to a parochial school or send me to a private school. Mm. Or uh, move to Shaker. So they did, went to Shaker. Yeah. I, as opposed to those other two options. Right.

Yeah. Okay. All right. That’s cool. That’s cool, man. I don’t think I was meant for St. Ignatius and St. Edward New. Nope. Or even Western Reserve Academy, though. So you did well at Shaker? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you were, I did very well there. You did very well because you were on the Harvard, right? Correct. And, and you double majored in Harvard.

Most people, I majored in what most people call political science. They called it government there. Okay. And like I said, I, I graduated with, uh, high honors Magna Kumau. Wow. So, yeah. So I was a serious student when I was there. Mm-hmm. And then you went to law school there? Yes. I worked in between college and law school.

I lived in, worked in DC mm-hmm. And I started out working for DC government. Then I worked for a congresswoman from California, Yvonne Brai, Wade Burke, who was the first woman to give birth while a member of Congress. Really? And she also was co-chair of the Democratic Convention in 72. [00:17:00] Two, I believe.

Mm-hmm. And was head of the Congressional Black Caucus. Wow. So she was quite successful. And then I got, I ended up working with the Carter Mondale campaign transition team and the, I had a political appointment at hud. Mm-hmm. And then I returned to Cambridge to start law school. So how you doing law school there?

Didn’t you do pretty well there as well? Oh, I did well enough. Oh yeah. I’ll tell you something. Law school was probably the least fulfilling portion of my life. Sure. I was just not as engaged. I was in law school cuz I knew a law degree would help me achieve what I wanted to do in the future. But, you know, some students just love law school in the classes.

I liked some of ’em, others I just endured. Mm-hmm. But I obviously did the graduate and to, to move on, you know. But I was not aspiring to be on law review and you know, one day average at Harvard Law School, one day I’m gonna get one of you lawyers on this show. Who gonna say I. Enjoyed law school. There are some, are some people who did every, everybody give me the exact same story what you do and, and, and, and, and lemme tell you kid, that’s [00:18:00] why you find a lot of older lawyers, Uhhuh, who are looking for ways to get out of law and get into other fields.

Right. Exactly. It’s a grind. Right. Right. That’s what they said’s a grind. That’s what they said. Yeah. You know, so, and, and it’s amazing because again, the story be the same. Oh, law school man. Nah, man, I, I didn’t even know if I was gonna do it. I barely got through it, through it. I, I figured I was gonna do something else at the last minute.

I decided I was gonna do it. It, it, it is. Well, law school is a great cat catchall for people. Okay. Who to some extent aren’t certain what they wanna do. Mm-hmm. But also a law degree prepares you to be successful in a number of different areas. You look at top business persons, many of them are lawyers, politicians, lawyers, obviously a lot of teachers, especially at the collegiate level.

Mm-hmm. Lawyers. Mm-hmm. And then you can practice law if all else fails and there are all kinds of different fields of law. Mm-hmm. So I just think it’s a very useful and flexible degree. Matter of fact, I’m encouraging my youngest Okay. Uh, to go to law school. He wants to, he’s at Ohio State now. Mm-hmm. His last year.

Mm-hmm. He’s at the Fisher School of Business, majoring in marketing. He makes [00:19:00] beats. Okay. And he wants to manage, uh, musical groups and musicians. And I tell him, get a law degree. Right. That makes you much more valuable Exactly. To those you wanna represent. Oh, that, that’s very, and if he seems to be listening to me, we’ll see what happens.

That’s, that’s very true. And, and so you still practice in law? Yes, I do. I still practice a little bit of law. Not a whole lot. And I just do handle very little litigation, mostly transactional matters, you know, reviewing contracts, reviewing leases, uh, helping negotiate agreements and things like that. And then I have a consulting practice in community engagement.

So I’ve had a lot of contracts with Noca. Mm-hmm. Work on one. Now with City of Shaker Heights, I’ve done a number with City of Cleveland. Mm-hmm. Where, uh, engineering firms and, uh, planning firms go after contracts with the municipal bodies or governmental entities. And if there’s a public outreach component, they add me to the team to help win the contract and then to execute on the work.

Right. Peter, we done talked about the culture a little bit. We done talked about business a little bit. We getting there, man. Let’s jump into the good stuff. Okay. Let’s a little bit about politics. Okay. So [00:20:00] what made you run for you? What was your first office? You were a state representative. My first office was Councilman, Councilman and then and vice mayor.

Okay. Like council president in Shaker Heights. Okay. Ken. The fact is, When I was 10 years old, I knew that I wanted to, uh, the three things I wanted to do, I wanted to be a professional baseball player. Okay. That was the hot sport at the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, it was before basketball and football came more popular.

Mm-hmm. I was particularly in the African-American community, I wanted to be an actor and I wanted to get in politics. Mm-hmm. And I knew that when I was 10 years old, it’s not because I had actors in my family, not cuz I had politicians in my family. Mm-hmm. But as I would watch the news and watch TV programming, those were the things I found.

Oh yeah. I’d like to do that. Right. Right. One day, and by the time I was 13, 14, I knew I would probably end up in law school. Hmm. Even though I didn’t have any lawyers in my family, and I don’t even know at that age if I knew a lawyer. Right. Okay. But these are just some things I kind of knew what my skills were, my, what my interests were.

Mm-hmm. What my passions were. And so I just tried to, and to this day mm-hmm. You know, I pursued them. So it wasn’t real shock. I. [00:21:00] The first class I took in at Harvard was a pre, was an effect, like a pre-law class. Okay. It was about constitutional law. Mm-hmm. I knew I was gonna major, my parents wanted me to become a physician.

Hmm. But I knew that was not gonna be the route for me. Wow. I had no way I could have survived biochemistry, physics, chemistry classes, biology. No. I wouldn’t cut off for that. Mm-hmm. You know, I knew early on that I was gonna major in government and that I probably end up in law school and that. Someday maybe I’d be an elected official.

Hmm. So it wasn’t necessarily a real surprise when I ran for, not to me mm-hmm. That I would throw my hat into the ring and run for Shaker Wright City Council back in 1983. Okay. Um, and a friend of mine who was on Shaker council at that time, Alan Milam. Yeah. I give him credit. He was the one really urged me to, to run for Shake City Council.

Oh, okay. You were successful with that. And you say he was Vice Mayor as well? Vice mayor as well. Then I ran for state senate in 1990. It was, there were nine candidates in the race. Wow. Some of the top names at that point. Wow. In, uh, greater [00:22:00] Cleveland. Mm-hmm. Uh, it was to succeed Lee Fisher. Okay. I finished second in that race to Eric Finger Hood.

Yeah. I remember 19 nine. So you was in that race? I was in that race. Matter of fact, Fingerhut, that was his first time ever running, wasn’t it? Absolutely. Exactly. And he had Mike White support and Mike White support behind. That was critical. Mike, matter of fact, Mike had just became mayor. That’s right. And he was on the road and Eric Fingerhut had been his campaign man.

Exactly. I remember that. Yeah. Oh, I didn’t know you were in that race. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Joe Deemer to Lana Maki. Mm-hmm. Uh, Bob Boyle, who was a mayor out in Richmond Heights, Paul Yaki. Wow. Who became the mayor in the city of Euclid. Tyrone Bolden. Wow. Who was in that race? Oh, it was quite the field.

Wow. It was quite the field. Yeah. That was everybody. Yeah. Wow. So I finished second, but you know. Mm-hmm. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, so, right. So I didn’t get any part of the prize there. Mm-hmm. And then, Um, you know, a couple years later I was asked to run on the Democratic ticket as Lieutenant Governor in the state of Ohio.

Yeah, I remember. So I did that. I remember that. We had no chance. Right. The head of the ticket was not [00:23:00] strong. Right. We are running against Voynich. Exactly. Who’s extremely popular governor. Right. We’re all kinda like sacrificial lambs. Right. It’s like running against the wine. Yeah. Really. Right. You know, it’s really a waste of time unless you’re going to hope by that to achieve something in the future.

Exactly. Exactly. So even though we lost that race, I made a lot of friends around the state and in northeast Ohio. Exactly. So I ran in 1996 and was fortunate enough to get elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Mm-hmm. Uh, I became second, uh, vice president of Ohio Legislative Black Caucus. Okay. I was the ranking member on the House Finance and Appropriations Committee.

Mm-hmm. And I will say this, not out of any vanity, but I had more substantive bills. Hmm. Not bills, renaming streets or highways. Right. Substantive bills passed than any other Democrat during my five years in the state. I can remember the one that pops to mind. Uh, the first is that I authored the legislation that created the Ohio Commission on Fatherhood.

Well, you know what, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, that’s correct. And there was another bill that made sure that homeowners were aware of certain tax breaks [00:24:00] that they were, by law entitled to, which many of them were not at all, uh, conscious of. There was another measure that strengthened the anti stalking law.

Hmm. And I can remember there was a bill I had offered to roll back the effective date of the victims of Crime Reparation fund because I had been approached by a woman who had been a friend of my mom’s who had been brutally assaulted. Mm. But because of when the assault occurred mm-hmm. It was two years before the effective date of the victims of crime, reparation.

Law so she could, was not eligible for any compensation. Wow. And at that point, the victim of Crime reparation Fund had like a 30 million surplus. Wow. So I just thought to roll it back a couple years to make more people, including this woman I knew mm-hmm. Eligible to get compensation. That’s right. And. I beat the speaker of the house.

Mm. Which almost never happens on a floor amendment. I offered it as legislation. Mm-hmm. It went nowhere. Then I had an opportunity, we were debating a bill that dealt with the victim of crime reparation fund. [00:25:00] I offered that as an amendment. Mm-hmm. And I defeated the speaker of the house cuz I was able to attract votes from all the Republicans who were very conservative, who anytime they could stick a finger, poke a finger.

The eye of a speaker. Exactly. Who was a wonderful, she was tremendous, uh, Joanne Davis. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, um, beat her on the, on the floor amendment. You didn’t see Democrats do that. Wow. You didn’t see Republicans do that. Wow. But I put together a coalition mm-hmm. That got that passed. And I, one of the great feelings in my life was when, uh, Anne Roseman Okay.

Called me to tell me that she had received her check. Wow. Maximum amount. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. So those are some of the things that I did when I was a member of the general assembly. And then I had the chance in 2002, uh, Jane Campbell had been elected mayor her seat mm-hmm. On the board of Khaw County Commissioners was open.

Mm-hmm. So I threw my hat in the ring for that. There was, through the central committee was responsible for appointing her successor. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:26:00] And boy did I work the central committee that, that was two, was two receptions throughout the Yeah, that was, I thought that was, that was quite, that was a battle.

That was a matter of fact. We were on opposite sides of that. We may have been, I, we were, were may have. I, I forgive all those who were former others. I mean, it, it was, it was, it, it was crazy. I, I Well you worked for the county recorder at that time. Reporter at time, right. Who was my opponent who wanted to run for the seat as well.

And he, he thought he had a, a. A better shot at it, but I think, I think I beat him. It was such a close race. I beat ’em 61 to 39%. Oh yeah. It, it, it, it, it was, it was, and I remember those though. It was an ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly. The, the, but lemme say this, Ken, the one thing I learned about in my years in politics was that when people were supporting my opponent mm-hmm.

I still wanted to be friendly enough mm-hmm. So that in the future they could [00:27:00] support me. Oh yeah. So that was always key to me. Never run a campaign that burned bridges. Right, right. Well, it is, it is a, it’s a thing I tell everybody. It’s a sense of loyalty. And loyalty comes in all shapes and forms. Oh yeah.

Is, is the loyalty is in the fact that you gotta support the people that you believe in and that you’re, you got stake with. But after they lose and you move on, the, the next part of that is the ability to be able to work with the other person as well. Absolutely. To show them the same type of loyalty.

Because you know, one of the things I found out Peter in the game is that, um, and this is one of the reasons why I kind of changed my attitude about politics a little bit, is that I’ve been behind the scenes enough and done work behind the scenes. And you’ll really appreciate this and you’ll know that you, as the candidate will be running and, um, you and the other candidate will be doing exactly what I’m talking about during that process.

But when the process is over with, there’s work to be done. And even at some point or another, [00:28:00] you guys gotta work together. Y’all figure it out and y’all work it out. But me and your campaign managers and everybody else, we’d be ready to kill each other for years. Oh, yes. Yeah. After that. After that. You know what I mean?

It’s like, well, you were not. I’m like, wait a minute, man, that is over with, man. No. It’s like the, and the Steelers, man, I got drafted. Now we all should be working together, but I think sometimes they just. You. That’s the most difficult part about it. You know, it’s interesting you should say that because I am far more forgiving mm-hmm.

For those who are on the other side for me mm-hmm. And various battles over the year mm-hmm. Than my wife is. Right, right. Oh, my wife takes it far more personally than I see. Exactly. Exactly. Right. She’s still angry at people from 20 years ago. Exactly. And be while I’m having breakfast and lunch with him.

Right. You know, like we’re Well they’ll let her see you call, turn into, so, It’s over. It’s over. It’s over. And, and, and, and that’s kind of the, the nature of the game. Yeah. You know, it, it, it is sort of, [00:29:00] that’s how we are. But some people just can’t shake it. Man. I, I mentioned, I’ve learned, you know, from acting, I’ve learned the importance of resiliency.

Because especially when you’re starting out, you get told no far more often. Right. Far, far, far more often you’d be than you’re told. Yes. Mm-hmm. And you have to not take the fact that somebody didn’t cast you in a certain role personally. Mm-hmm. And you have to go back, be prepared to give a hundred percent on your next audition.

Mm-hmm. And what politics taught me was to be more thick-skinned Mm. About things. And again, to not take them personally. If somebody disagrees with me on an issue and you move forward mm-hmm. You know, you can’t get stuck, whether it’s in acting or in politics with the battles that you had yesterday. And the, the, the defeats or the disappointment have to move forward.

Do, do you like politics today, the way it is today? Well, let me, oh, I’m glad I’m not in it. Okay. Because I think things are more dysfunctional now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Especially in congress, in mo in state legislatures. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] State legislatures is just, yeah. The state is just really, um, it, it is tow up man. And see, that’s why I was fortunate because the speaker, the, the Republican Speaker of the House, Joanne Davidson, when I was in the legislature mm-hmm.

Was a moderate, came from an urban area Columbus. Mm. And so there were things that we could compromise, compromise on and agree on. Right, right, right, right. You know, so it’s a very different dynamic that exists there. People ask me, do I miss politics? I said, I’ve got two answers for you. I said, the one thing, the serious, the answer that will sound serious to you.

Is that I miss being in position where I could help people who deserved and needed help by offering a piece of legislation, by establishing a program, by making a phone call, by voting, uh, a certain way on an issue. And I miss, on occasion, I miss having a voice that matters on the matters of the day. I still think I have a voice and I still have access.

Mm-hmm. So that I can make my opinions felt. Mm-hmm. But I miss those two things. But here’s what I don’t miss. Yes. And the answer might sound [00:31:00] comical, but it is absolutely true. I no longer have to go place. I don’t want to go. That’s a big deal. I don’t have to speak to people. I don’t care to speak to big deal.

And I don’t have to be nice to people. I detest. That is a huge, it’s like freedom, right? Like January 1st, 2011 was emancipation Day for me in that respect, you know? And you hit ’em right on the head. Those are the three biggest things. I, I mean really those are the things right there. Let me ask this go, cause we going get on this politics a little bit.

Do you think that since you left, you were part of the last of the Mohicans of the way we used to do government, county government do, do you think we should have kept it that way? We did it or you think we, well, this is what I think we should have done. And it’s interesting because I, I was invited to the city club on several occasions mm-hmm.

To debate county government reform before the reform that finally made it to the ballot took place. This is what I always felt. I thought there were positions that we didn’t need in the county level. Mm-hmm. With [00:32:00] all due respect, I know you worked for the recorder’s office. Mm-hmm. But I didn’t think we needed mm-hmm.

To elect a county recorder. Okay. I didn’t think we should be electing a county engineer. Mm-hmm. I didn’t think we should elect the county coroner because those are technical positions. Correct. But I always felt it literally, Analysis in books on the topic showed that the county council, county executive form of government is more bureaucratic, more red tape and costs more than the three, three commissioner form of government.

Correct. My thought was you keep the three commissioners, you appoint the engineer. Mm-hmm. The sheriff. Mm-hmm. Um, the coroner. Mm-hmm. You merge the positions of auditor and recorder. And you’ll point them. That’s what I supported. Correct. And I think that would’ve been a much more sensible approach. Mm-hmm.

But unfortunately, because of the misdeeds of the then county, uh, auditor and one of the county commissioners and, you know, a lot of the other county officials, the county recorder and the county mm-hmm. A sheriff got in trouble. [00:33:00] Mm-hmm. So that created a momentum just to throw the baby out with the bath.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And that’s what happened. Oh no, they, they definitely threw the baby out. They, they, they, they put everything one bad apple and they just let it snowball into the ridiculousness of what it is now. And I believe that Chris Ronan will do, will be more successful mm-hmm. And effective than the previous county executives.

But I haven’t seen anything yet that makes me believe that this system is superior, not superior, not even the equal of the previous system. And, and what a ma One last question. Mm-hmm. One last comment on this. Mm-hmm. What amused me, okay. Is that when the Plain dealer was supporting county government reform mm-hmm.

They were saying the problem isn’t the players. The problem is the system. Right Now, when they’ve had less than effective county executive, they say, oh, the problem isn’t the system, the problem, the place. Right. And that’s the part that, you know, I had chrisna on the show. And the name of his show was Heaviest The Crown.

Heaviest the [00:34:00] Crown. I said we gonna call it heaviest King, the Crown King. Yeah. Because brother, you going wear it and it’s not easy. No. And and and I said cuz we’re going from a system where they had three people to maybe eight different people doing the job that they’ve given to one person to do. Right now, I believe to your point, that Chris’s real name would do a better job than Armon.

Only because Armen did a better job than Ed. Yeah. For Ed. And so Chris gotta do a better job than Arm. The bar is kind of low, right point. And it’s low. And we started, and I love Armon. He’s a good friend of mine, but we starting something new that’s there. It is sort of like we say that you know Donald Trump.

Lived off of all the work that Obama did. Mm-hmm. Now, when you start off with a government that has nothing, and we starting off Fresh Zero, you had your first executive who basically came in and came out. He wanted to run for governor. So all the real work was nothing there. It was what Armon had to do, which everybody said was, Hey, you ain’t do much of anything.[00:35:00]

So now it’s on you Chris, and I think he’s in the same boat. I think it’s not, I think it’s like what the Plain Dealer said. It’s the system and you guys just got upset with Armon and so now it is arming. But yeah, soon as you get mad at Chris, Chris, they’ll be beating the drum for somebody new, beating the drum for somebody new and, and then they’ll be back.

Cause I, this is what I watched. I watched Chris on the city, not the city club. He did the Plain Dealer editorial. Okay. And they said on the editorial then that they thought that, well, you think we oughta change the government back and the government wasn’t this and that. Oh, they asked you? Yeah, they actually said that.

And I said, you know, they got a lot of golf. The just saying like, Hey, well we tried it, it didn’t work, so maybe we oughta just switch it back. Just like that. Well, there, there’s a BitLock. There’s what, 88 counties in Ohio? Mm-hmm. And 86 counties have the three commissioner, former government. Wow. 86 counties.

Can’t all be wrong. Right. So lemme ask you this on that cuz uh, again, I, we all wish Chris the best luck we’re gonna be working with him on it. When we talk about the sheriff though, do you [00:36:00] believe the sheriff, you mentioned the sheriff should be appointed cuz they’re going back to that now. Do you think we ought to elect the sheriff or you think he ought to stay appointed?

Let me say, I think the sheriff and the prosecutor are the positions. You can make arguments pro and con. Mm-hmm. Pro and con because, especially with the prosecutor, because of the important role mm-hmm. That he or she plays in administering justice. Mm-hmm. I think some degree of control that the public ought to have control and vote on who’s the prosecutor.

Mm-hmm. I think you might be able to make that argument for the sheriff, but it’s to a lesser extent than the prosecutor. Okay. Why couldn’t we never elected, uh, our public defender? Why is he appointed and not elected? I guess? Who knows? Maybe there’s certain inertia initially, you know, I don’t even, I don’t know enough about the evolution of the public defender’s office mm-hmm.

To answer that. But I have the feeling that we had a county prosecutor long before we had a public defender. I think at some point in the history of the county, there was the, the need was felt to have a public defender to represent the rights of those who simply don’t have the [00:37:00] financial mean to represent themselves.

Mm-hmm. And to protect their interests. So that’s why I think that came about as an appointment in that process. Mm-hmm. And so there was never any thought about electing. The public defender. He, he, they’re elected in some states. Yes. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And, and I just noticed that they were elected here. I think, I just think it was because of how it evolved.

Mm-hmm. You know, it evolved, the position evolved long after you had a county prosecutor. So let’s go national a little bit. What do you think about our man, Mr. Bite man, you think, oh, Joe’s ready for another four years. Peter can, can we get four FOMO outta Joe? He’ll be what, 80 something by that time now?

Well, you know, it’s somebody who just turned 70. I like to think older older guys still have a, he still got it. Utility. Right. Ok. The question is, as a Democrat who, other than Joe Biden can defeat the likely Republican candidates? Mm-hmm. And I’m not sure we have somebody who’s ready to step in and defeat the other Republican candidates.

Particularly if it’s somebody like, uh, Ron DeSantis. I think Joe Biden could beat Trump again. Okay. I think almost any Democrat could beat [00:38:00] Trump. Trump has a limited mm-hmm. Level of his support is vociferous. Right. Uh, his, his. His support is maniacal. Mm-hmm. But there’s only so far he can go, and I think he’s maxed out, but some of these other Republican candidates who are a little smoother, don’t have some of the ethical challenges.

Mm-hmm. Trump does, can pose a greater, a threat to a democratic candidate. So, um, I know there are a lot of Democratic governors that people are singing their praises. There’s a few, they might be, I don’t know if they’ll be ready next year. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I have some misgiving. Certainly the, in all seriousness, the age factor is a factor.

Mm-hmm. Because he’s gonna be, you know, 84, 85 if, when his next term would end. Mm-hmm. If I remember correctly. And I think the discovery of documents at his home mm-hmm. Kind of takes away one of the issues Oh. That, that we had Yes. Uh, in the presidential election, particularly against Trump. Oh man. They keep finding them.

Yeah. Every day they keep finding, every day there’s a new, you know, every day we find something else flying over the United States. Right, right. And, and some other, [00:39:00] Classified document in an elected retired ELE or current elected officials. That’s definitely not, that’s definitely not helping Joe. Yeah. And, and, and it’s just like what you said is Joe almost gotta run like a black man.

It is like, you know, our, they said, we got our stuff. Gotta be squeaky clean, clean it. It ain’t like you can go in there because they gonna find they ready going in with this Hunter Biden, which they still have never found nothing on Hunter. But they, but they’re gonna keep up the drum beat. They’re gonna keep that up on there.

And that’s what the Republicans in the house have said. They’ve got all these committees that have been started to just go over these kinds of issues. The last election, hunter Biden, you know, anything else that they think they could seize on mm-hmm. To um, diminish. The stature of our current president.

What about Kamala Harris, man? Do you think she is gonna be able to withstand, you know, no, no. I, I just don’t think, I don’t think Joe did her any justice. And, and what I mean by this is that Obama, president Obama made Joe a cool vice president. Mm-hmm. He, Obama was just that cool, that just spill out on him, you know [00:40:00] what I mean?

But he also made sure you saw videos, you saw clips, you saw things where they were interacting. You don’t see none of that. Well, I don’t think at all. At all. I, I don’t think that they ever, I don’t know if he ever really liked her. Right. You can tell. Particularly, particularly because of the, you know, during the primary she said some things that mm-hmm.

He understandably took umbridge to. Mm-hmm. So I don’t know if people get over that, but he saw that with her on the ticket. Mm-hmm. It could solidify support from him mm-hmm. In a number of different communities, you know, amongst women. Mm-hmm. Amongst Asian Indians. Mm-hmm. Amongst African Americans. Mm-hmm.

With the H B C U crowd. Correct. You know, either further strengthening his hand in California, which really, I don’t know when the next time with Republican next time, when California hell will a frozen over. So I think those were the reasons that motivate not any personal affinity and affection for her.

Mm-hmm. Honestly, I’ve always heard this and I think it makes a lot of sense. That the American people tend to elect as their president, the candidate that they would most be interested in [00:41:00] have sitting down and having a beer with, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Think about it. Biden over Trump, right? Trump over Hillary Clinton.

Mm-hmm. Cuz she was viewed as very cold and that’s correct. That’s correct. Wasn’t really likable Obama over McCain and Romney. Mm-hmm. George Bush over Al Gore, who was viewed is a bit stiff and a bit of a, you know, a scold when it came to the environment. Right. I think Kamala lacks that warmth. Right. And again, there’s nothing that’s happened during her tenure as vice president where she’s either shown Li leadership or been in position.

He said she was in charge of the board. The border hasn’t gotten any better. I don’t, I don’t see, I don’t see how she, no, she’s not gonna be the Democratic nominee. She, she can’t be the nominee. And, and again, and it goes back to what she’s run. Biden did. Yeah. But she’s not gonna win. It goes back to what you were just saying, a, about not having anybody.

We don’t have anybody. I don’t really think we’ve got anybody well positioned to beat a DeSantis. And, and, and we don’t have anybody positioned, nor have we developed anybody. To the point of what I’m saying by [00:42:00] Biden, not even saying, Hey, even if I don’t like her for the benefit of the party, I better start looking like, promote her a little bit.

Promoting somebody. Because at this point we, I, if it is not you brother, who, if it’s not Biden, then who? Yeah. I mean, and that, that’s really tough, man. All right, Peter, we going, gone into the good party your life, man, because you know, the political stuff is the politics. It’s not going nowhere. And we’ll be back to talk, we’ll talk about that another day.

Yeah. Let’s talk about, what’s really interesting is that you went from the political stuff and we had a ugly little situation that happened, county government. And um, as a result of that, you were leaving not because of that, because your term was, uh, my term got uh, cut in half. In half and, and they changed government.

And you was like, hell, what y’all, y’all wanted y’all work with it? Cause we begged you to be executive. Remember we had that conversation. Know we had that conversation. Yeah. And, and so, um, at that point, I just didn’t have the desire exactly, but then the heart that you need to mm-hmm. Campaign. Mm-hmm. And to serve.

And it was those last two years. Yeah. Those last two years mm-hmm. Really destroyed a lot of my [00:43:00] love. Exactly. For public office. Exactly. And public service. I can understand in that capacity. I can totally understand that. Yeah, I understand that. Man. It, it was, it was really bad. So, and, and God willing and everything, you made it out of it unscathed.

Absolutely. And so that, so in that, you know, it’s like, well, shit, Peter went from being that to, he’s acting and nobody was in believing that. Like, thank you for saying that. Nobody believe that Peter, for saying that, you know, I’m gonna saying nobody, nobody like that, that Peter acted like, okay, you’re right.

We’ll see it when we see you. Right, right. Then I can, Hey, my old wife thought I was crazy. Had to, it’s sort like when I woke up and said, I’m starting a podcast. Like, really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He was trying to get paid from YouTube. I’m like, no, I, I ain’t trying to work that hard. I mean, it was like, yeah, he’s gonna be on this play on in Carib.

I think that was the first thing, right? The first thing, and that’s as far as it’ll go. Yeah, that’s right. It’s like, okay, y’all gonna go see Peter, people going and see Peter, you wanna support Peter and do his. And, and, and that was good. And then from there, let’s take us down how it went from [00:44:00] you, you decide.

I’m on. Well, I’ll be honest with you, when I first started acting again, and, and the only re I hadn’t acted for 30 years almost. Mm. And I had a, my first play that I had written, and I wrote it when I was a college student, but it was getting, I was on the board of Kemu and they ended up giving it a, a production, full production of the family line.

And so I always say my plays are like my fourth, fifth, and sixth children. Really, you know, because I gave birth to them. Uh, you know, with, with my own kids, I only did half the work. Matter of fact, I didn’t even do half the work, really. Right. Just be honest. Right. But with these plays, I mean, they were entirely my creation.

And so I would go watch the plays every night. So I had never seen my watch the neck performance. Mm-hmm. And I became friends with Terrence Spidey, who was then the artistic director. Caramel. Exactly. Exactly. And when, and Terrence and I would chat, and when he found out I used to act and that I used to mm-hmm.

Um, and that I knew something about theater. He invited me to participate in the stage reading. And the stage reading was gonna be at the old Cleveland playoffs up on Carnegie. Avenue and, uh, bill Cobb and Ruby D were in it. Right? Right. And I said, and I thought to him, I myself, oh, I’ll be on stage with mm-hmm.

Bill Cobb and [00:45:00] Ruby D and all I have to do is read the stage directions. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, require any memorization or any real work. I said, sure, I’ll do that. So after that was done, Karen came back to me and said, there’s a play I’d like to put up one day, but I’d like to do a stage reading and I’d like you to consider reading the lead role.

Mm-hmm. And I said, fine, I’ll do that. You know, cuz it was fun. And with the stage reading, you don’t have to memorize anything. You know, there are no costumes, no props. It’s pretty easy. And then after that I just kind of said, you don’t have gone, I’d like to tell us again, you don’t have to tell us act again.

You had to tell us what’s the stage read. So, okay. A stage reading is, actors sit with the scripts in front of them on a stage with a music stand where they rest their scripts and they just read the play. Just read. Just read it. Okay. You know, of course you acted out vocally. Mm-hmm. But you don’t have blocking where you have to move.

Certain plays on the stage. You don’t have costumes. Mm-hmm. Uh, you don’t have to memorize lines. Okay. So it lacks all the elements of a full production. They give you that ahead of time? Or are you, well you generally have even a rehearsal [00:46:00] or two with the stage reading. Okay. I’m getting ready to do one in, uh, next month.

And there’s a couple rehearsals in advance for the stage reading. Oh, so they’ll give you rehearsals before you actually do the actor stage reading? Yeah, sure. Oh, sure. Because they do want you, they do wanna have a little chemistry established between the actors. Mm-hmm. And they do want you to be more familiar with the piece.

Okay. And there are some things that the director, you know, even a stage reading has a director, so there’s certain thing directors will wanna focus on in the script. Mm-hmm. But it’s really just you in the script really. Actors in the script. Right. Nothing else. So that was your first one. You were, so, so I did two stage readings.

Mm-hmm. And then after the second one, I said, man, I think I’d like to act again. Hmm. So I auditioned for a play at Carou. Mm-hmm. And, uh, was cast in it. Mm-hmm. And uh, then one thing after another, You know, I said, okay, I think I want to get an agent so I can do a little voiceover work. You do plenty of that.

So I do a fair amount of that. Mm-hmm. And then one day I’m in the green room, uh, going on stage at, um, weathervane Playhouse. Mm-hmm. We were doing Carou Ensemble [00:47:00] collaboration with Weathervane. We were doing the Great White Hope. Mm-hmm. And, uh, an actor in the Green Room says, Hey, they’re casting a film in Akron tomorrow.

Star Corbin Bernson, who used to be on LA Law, and it’s an open audition. And I said, oh, well I gotta be in Akron tomorrow anyway. Hmm. So I auditioned for that. I got cast in that film. Then I started getting, you know, a little more interest. Okay. Maybe I can take this a little further. So you gonna have to, you know, like I say, we gonna try to give our folks something.

So I, I pull out a little bit. So when you say you cast for that, you just went there and just walked in and say, I wanna audition for this? Well, this was an audition unlike any I had been in, because it was really what they call an open call. Okay. So you had the soapbox derby. Vineyard Aquin was filled with people when I showed up for the audition.

Wow. So you had two things. You could do either of two things. You could fill out your form, attach your headshot, and just turn it in. Then you could leave, or you could get in this long line and actually meet Corbin Bernson. Really? So I was there and the line was really long and I said, I’m just going to staple my headshot to this, [00:48:00] this form I had to fill out and leave it.

So then I, I was hungry, so I went and had lunch. And just read the newspaper. And then a couple hours passed and I said, Hmm, I wonder if that line’s still is long. Let me go back and check it out. So I drove back and it was stacked down to 40 people. Really? So I said, okay, I, I’ll stick around so I can meet him.

Mm-hmm. So I go up to the table where he’s sitting, he’s writing something, and I say, Mr. Bernsen, I’m glad you’re bringing this film to Northeast Ohio. And, and I’m in a play in Akron tonight. If you aren’t doing anything, why don’t you come see it? And, uh, he’s, he’s still looking down. He said, oh, I just spent a long day.

I probably no one have the energy to go to a play. And then he looks up and he says, oh, he’d be perfect to play the husband of the school teacher in the play in the movie. Just like that. So, yeah, just like that. So that’s how I got my first role in a film. Wow. Yeah. Called 25 Hill, that was the name of it.

25 Hill. Wow. Was he the cor, was he in it or He was, he was in it. He wrote it and he directed it. Wow. That’s how it started. And then I started networking with people who were also actors. Mm-hmm. And [00:49:00] they was say, so I got an agent in Cleveland. Mm-hmm. And then I met, remember meeting with the guy and he told me how to get an agent in Detroit and threw my agent in Detroit.

I ended up getting cast and going auditioning and getting cast in Detroit 180 7, which was a, a crime drama. So why, why he picked Detroit? I would think California. Oh. Oh. Because Detroit at that time had a film tax credit and they were doing a lot of stuff. Wow. And Detroit’s closer, I can get to Detroit in a couple of hours.

No, that’s true. Right? That’s true. So I can audition for things there. So let’s talk about that cuz you hit about this tax credit in Ohio. I had, uh, Sheila Wright on the program. We talked about the tax credit and the film tax credit and the importance of that. Is Ohio shortchanging ourselves by now? Yes, we are.

We need, well, there are two things. We need to have an unlimited cap or certainly raise the 40 million cap. Mm-hmm. Because we’re expending that money. Quickly. Mm-hmm. And then other productions want to come here and there’s no money for ’em. Mm-hmm. And the other thing is to have what they call, have it on not just one annual [00:50:00] deadline, but to have it rolling.

Mm-hmm. So that if you, you don’t meet that deadline, there’s a number of deadlines. You have year round applications. Mm-hmm. So people aren’t shut out because they missed the’s, a dead simple deadline or gotta shoot during a certain period of time of the year, which could be crummy up here. Yeah. Otherwise, interesting.

Yeah. All right. So what was your, after that, what was your next role? Well, the trade eight seven was kind of big, cuz that was the ABC Crime Drama. Okay. With Michael Imperially, the Sopranos. Okay. And let me just parenthetically say great guy. Oh, that, that’s the one that’s on your, uh, your, uh, reel. Yes. Okay.

I think it’s the first thing on my reel. Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. And then I continued to do stage acting, became a member of the, I think with Detroit 180 7. I became a member of SAG aftra. Okay. I did a play at Cleveland Playhouse. That’s how I became a member of Actors Equity, which is the Stage actors union.

Okay. And then, you know, Alex Cross playing the minister in the scene and Alex Cross was probably the next big thing. And then White Boy [00:51:00] Rick, I mean, all of this over a series of years. But let me tell you something, trying to make headway as a professional actor is far harder to me than winning an election.

Oh, it gotta, everybody think they’re an actor. There you go. Everybody. And I felt, and, and there are things you can control. Mm-hmm. As a candidate, you know that if you raise more money right, than your opponent, if you know the issues better, if you outwork your opponent mm-hmm. You still have a pretty good chance of winning.

Right. All of that is almost out of the door. You have to be talented as an actor. You have to certainly outwork those, your competitors. Correct. But that doesn’t guarantee anything because it’s so subjective. So subjective. It’s based on so many external factors of which you have no control. Now you say he was looking down and he just heard you talking and, and just looked up and looked at you.

Yeah. If he hadn’t looked up, you know, he was, it’d been a long day for him, as he said, and he just happened to look up. Wow. And I know that getting that role encouraged me to go further with it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To push the envelope further. But the same attributes, personal attributes that I applied to, politics, [00:52:00] law, et cetera, I applied to this.

Mm-hmm. That is network hard and work even harder. Be personable. If people like you, you’ll get more opportunities than if they don’t. Mm-hmm. You know, you gotta be somebody they wanna work with. Somebody they wanna vote for somebody they want to hire. So how about you like the theater more than the film?

Well, there’s two different, I like them both, but for different reasons. Okay. When it comes to theater, I like the rehearsal process. You become a team, you get to know the other actors better. Mm-hmm. And so it’s like being on a sports team, the immediate reaction you get from the audience in theater is so different.

Yeah. Every night is different. You feed off them, whether they’re laughing or whether mm-hmm. You can feel that they’re paying attention to every word and they’re, you’ve got ’em completely in your hand. And also, the other challenge thing about acting, they can be fun and it can also be frightening. And no performance.

Every performance is different. No performance is the same. Right. Right. And I can’t tell you the number of times when somebody misses a line. I’ve had time when I was supposed to walk out in the scene with another actor and he was nowhere to be found. Wow. So I had to [00:53:00] adjust my dialogue. It’s no longer directed to this actor, but to direct it to the other actors who were on stage.

Wow. Wow. I can remember one time, and this was, you know, I did the, the gospel according to James at Ensemble Theater. This is a very, very dramatic moment in which I’m talking about two people who had been hung. Hmm. So the lights go up on one actor and he’s there. The lights go up on the second actor, he’s not, Where he’s supposed to be.

Hmm. When the, when the light is focused on him, and I have to, you know, first there’s the shock. I’m not seeing him there. But then quickly I’ve gotta figure out how to deal with this, how to deal with that. So that’s what you wrote, the live audience. So that’s what’s exciting about live theater. What I hate about film and TV work is that you do a scene, a infinitum ad nauseum over and over again.

I’ve had been in scenes where they’ve shot it 50 or 60 times from different angles. You’re doing the same thing, and so it can be a bit tiring. And then so they do all these different angles and decide which one they like best. Right. Wow. The director wants to have all the options. Mm-hmm. So when it’s time to edit, he’s got it from every angle [00:54:00] and Wow.

All kinds of different iterations of it. Yeah. I went and saw, um, I had a red carpet screening for a man called auto out at cinema. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We rented one auditorium. We ended up needing four. Wow. I thought 200. I was hoping to sell 250 seats. We sold 500. Wow. I was hoping to raise 15 to 20 grand from my parents scholarship fund when all the dollars of finally would be closer to 40,000.

Excellent. So we rented the large art. The screen’s like 120 feet. Mm-hmm. So see yourself on 120 foot screened. Right. Right. It does something for your ego. Right. Right. So, so, so the, and when, you know, for example, with a man called Otto, I’ve been getting, people have been texting me and, and calling me from literally around the world mm-hmm.

Where they’ve seen the film. I, I, I got my opinion on a man called Otto. Okay. And, and, and others. Now, I, I watched you in, cause Latif, you know, my producer here, he, he said, you know, Peter’s coming on the show, man. He was like, Peter was in this movie. But I said, I know. He said, well, I told Peter about you, and he said the same thing.

Oh, I know Ken. Yeah. So he was like, I said, yeah. He said, but you gotta [00:55:00] watch this movie he was in. I said, what was it? He said, A man called Idol. So I said, I’m gonna make sure I’m making my business to watch it. To watch it. Thank you for building my residuals. Yes. And I wanted to make sure I did. But to me, Peter, I thought the role you played in, what was it?

9 1 1? Chicago Fire. Chicago Fire. What’s a better role? I would agree with you because I had more lines. Okay. What I was challenged to do in a man called Auto mm-hmm. Was to convey feelings. As a stroke victim. Mm. Through facial expression and a minimum of physical gestures. How do you audition? Well, first my agent, local agent got me the audition, secured the audition.

And I have a videographer that I work with, Mark Moore and Mark will put me on film. He’s also an actor, so he reads the lines and he does a great job with that. For that particular audition for a man called Auto. I called in my friend Jean Madison and she read the My wife’s lines. And then she also, I don’t spoiler [00:56:00] alerts, so don’t listen for the next few seconds.

She held the tube that I need, that I was grabbing cuz in that scene with, with Tom Hanks, I know what he’s planning to do and I’m trying to stop him. Mm-hmm. And that’s, I, that’s why I grabbed this tubing that he hit. Okay. Right. So I needed to create that tension because I have to feel that tension to act it.

You know, if I wasn’t tugging on that, I’m not gonna feel the same way. I had to feel that that’s what I’m doing. The past, that’s what you was doing. I didn’t know why you did that in the movie. That’s why I was doing it. Because you knew he was trying to prevent him? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Because that, that moment is set up when, when he comes to the, the, he comes into my house.

He hasn’t seen me in years. Correct. And he says to, uh, my wife, does he even know we’re here? Right. And she says, oh yeah, he’s still in there. Exactly. And that was my way of showing. Oh yeah. Okay. I’m aware of everything that’s being said. Got you. Right. Okay. Yeah. Outside I, why he grabbing like that? Right.

You know, so, so when, when, and what I’m really grabbing is the, is the tubing. So, and when I had the call back, you know, they, they called my agent call and said, oh, they [00:57:00] want to see you. Mm-hmm. Again, which means down to the final two or three people from whom they’re gonna make a selection. The director wants, so the director was on this, it was by Zoom.

Mm-hmm. The director was on the call. One of the casting directors was on the call. And maybe somebody else of production team. I didn’t have anybody for the Zoom, so I had to take a piece of, uh, that kind of exercise, you know, exercise bands that use Yeah. Right. And I, uh, placed it around the, um, back of a chair mm-hmm.

And pulled it to create that same tension. And at one point the director said to me, after we shot it the first time, he said, okay, now let me see your hand holding that too. He wanted to see how my hand looked, grabbing that piece of tubing. Wow. That’s the process. Mm-hmm. That’s the audition process. Most auditions now you used to have to go into where, uh, you know, a big casting room for an audition.

Now you tape them and send them in. Mm-hmm. And it’s great. It, on the one hand, it allows more people to compete for roles. Right. More, but the good news is that you don’t have to travel mm-hmm. To new, you don’t have to get on a bus or Yeah. [00:58:00] Drive or catch a plane to go audition. Mm-hmm. It can all be done.

Yeah. But it, it is, it is electronic. So it’s all out there now. Right. It’s everybody. Mm-hmm. Right. Everybody can compete. Wow. And so competing, how hard is it to be an actor? Yeah. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. That’s why so many people start and quit. And you think being at a, coming in at a later age in your career, was that an advantage or disadvantage?

Disadvantage, yeah. I one time had somebody tell me that it’s an advantage because all the people who would’ve been your age, who started 30 years ago and quit. That’s true. Outta frustration. That’s true. So you’re like the last man standing. That’s true. That’s true. But here’s the thing, middle-aged men always have roles.

There’s always roles available. Any show somebody’s playing. The dad, the uncle, the judge. Mm-hmm. The grandfather. Mm-hmm. So I’m still competing with a whole lot of people. Mm-hmm. But, um, I don’t think it’s a disadvantage. Okay. And the other thing is, a lot of people, it’s a matter of life and death, whether they eat or not.

Mm-hmm. When they come in at an earlier age, [00:59:00] right? Mm-hmm. I don’t have that kind of pressure. I got you. I got social security. Yeah. I got my PRS pension. I’m still practicing law. Right. Still got my consoling practice. I’m teaching acting. You’re not a starving artist. Right. I’m not a starving artist. That’s correct.

So I don’t have those same kind of pressures and we have those kind of pressures. Sometimes you don’t perform as well. So let me ask you that. Give up another little Holy Hollywood secret or whatnot if there’s such a thing. Oh, there are plenty of them. How do I, I’m amazed that when I see your Samuel Jacksons, your Kevin Harts, some of these guys and, and even yourself and others man, do y’all actually have to memorize all of those damn lines?

They, they remember all those movies. They go, how do you prepare for something? Like how do you think they prepare to do? And you have and you have to memorize it. I think it’s tougher for a player than a, a movie cuz a movie, you don’t have much rehearsal. You’ll run a rehearsal one time, then ask, say, okay, we’re gonna film, we’re gonna shoot.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, and you do it in segments. Mm-hmm. So one day you need to know [01:00:00] three or four pages another day, another couple of pages. So it’s very different. So you really have to be, I don’t wanna say smart, but you gotta have some intelligence then. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. You absolutely to think that you could just go out there and ask.

No, you know, and, you know, everybody thinks, like you said earlier, right? Everybody thinks they can be an actor. Yeah. Everybody thinks they can be a comedian. Everybody thinks that they can be a politic run for office and win. But no, that’s, uh, a they’re under a lot of delusions and illusions to think that mm-hmm.

I would like to, so, so, yeah. No, you have to learn your lines. And that’s oftentimes the toughest part. I don’t find, for me, I don’t find it challenging at all to get into these characters. Mm-hmm. Whether I’m playing the guy with senility on a Chicago fire, the mm-hmm. Retired police officer who’s struggling with Alzheimer’s, or while I’m, whether I’m playing a stroke victim.

Mm-hmm. You know, I, I don’t know. I think. One, I understand motivation. I understand what motivates most human beings. I know myself, I know why I do everything that I do, all my reactions. I know where they come from, [01:01:00] and I believe we’re all more or less the same in that respect. If I had been become a, a doctor, the only, there’s only one area of medicine that interested me.

Well, psychiatry. Oh, you wanted to be with the crazy Oh yeah. I want the human mind. The human mind. The human mind. I, I find that fascinating. Right. And so I think all of those things, those inclinations and whatever skills I’ve gained in that respect help me understand a character. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the things I’ve experienced, I’ve lived a long life.

I’ve been in a lot of different settings. I’ve seen people in every walk of life and in every condition. Mm-hmm. So I have a frame of reference. Mm-hmm. I think in a man called Otto, when I play the older Ruben. Right. Not the 40 year old Ruben, but the older Ruben. You know, I draw upon my father during his last year of life when he went into, uh, precipitous decline.

Mm. Physically and in his, and his ability to communicate. Okay. And so I think I probably drew upon that. Okay. You know, that’s indelibly etched in my mind. Mm-hmm. And matter of fact, a friend asked me the other day, said, oh, well did to prepare for that, did you go, [01:02:00] uh, into nursing homes and look at people?

And I said, darn, that would’ve been a good idea. You, I assumed you did. No, no. I just, I knew and somebody said, you know what you did with your mouth and your face and that, did you No, I just kind of knew, knew, knew. I just knew. Mm-hmm. So you, you know what I, I tell you cuz I made reference that I thought the, um, movie you did.

What was Nine Chicago Fire Two Chicago Fire. I don’t want to keep calling 9 1 1. My family watched that one on. Okay. Chicago Fire To play the role that you did play in a Tom Hanks movie on the big screen. Mm-hmm. Like you say, to even be in that role versus the other one. Like you say, I think the credibility and the be amongst that, like you say, and amongst those stars in there, the, your wife.

They’re definitely been on the screen and people know her from plenty of roles, Tom himself. And just the overall story of that, the story itself was really, really a, a good story. And it, it [01:03:00] was definitely a, a Tom, a Tom Hanks fan, so it, it was no problem watching, lemme tell you, he’s, I knew he was, he’s a genius as an actor.

Mm-hmm. He’s got a tremendous sense of humor, and he’s a good human being. Yeah. I could tell. So he deserves everybody’s ion How often did you get to work with him? Well, all my, virtually, all my scenes are with him. Mm-hmm. So I worked with him, uh, steadily. You know, um, I, I was there over, I was there, I was in, out of Pittsburgh where it was shot mm-hmm.

For about two months, from end of February to the beginning of April. Okay. And so he and I would have conversations in the hair and makeup unit mm-hmm. Every day I was on set. Mm. You know? So Did he give you any tips? There were Not really, but there were times when he and I would be figuring out what we wanted to do in certain scenes.

Mm-hmm. In terms of, you know, touching a hand or, or things like that. No, no. It, it, this was was fun. Chicago fires the one time I remember an actor giving me an idea that I then [01:04:00] embellished and acted upon, and I think it created a very beautiful moment. That was Chicago fire. Mm-hmm. The last scene when I’m sitting on the porch.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, The chief commander, Imam Walkers, his real name, but Boden mm-hmm. Comes up and talks to me and he said that the end of the scene, he, he suggested we we’re in between takes and he said, I think we can make this scene better if at the end of the scene, after you hand me that fraternal order police cap, you look back at the, at your house as if for one last time.

Mm-hmm. Hand the cap, look back at the house. I said, that’s a good idea. I go back into the holding area. It was a cold Chicago evening, so the holding area was actually the inside of a van. Mm-hmm. I go in, I think, and I come back and I say, you know, that was a great idea, but why don’t we do it like this? I said, that moment when I hand you my cap is such a beautiful moment.

It’s such a connection between the two of us. Let’s let that breathe all on its own. And then when we walk towards the gate to [01:05:00] leave the house, then you, that’s when I’ll turn and look back. Right. So we create two beautiful moments. You did a good job, man. That was pretty cool, man. That was a good, that was a, that one every, every whole city was watching that one.

No, see that was blowing up on social media everywhere. Everybody watch that was, I thought that was really good. I love that. I love that. I love that role. And I remember when my videographer and I got mm-hmm. Through with it and I said, Hey, let me take a, we always, you know, take a look to determine which cut we want to use and send in, submit to the casting director.

And I looked at that. I just felt that scene from the very first time that I was, uh, recording it for purchase audition. Mm-hmm. There’s certain things just hit. I was getting ready to do a full length feature film this summer, low budget film. Mm-hmm. Only about. 75 grand. Uh, matter of fact, we’re still looking for investors.

So if you know anybody that wants to be an executive producer of a film and have their name in the credits mm-hmm. It’s called The Last Shop on Walnuts and I’m playing the lead in this. Okay. So that’s what’s so exciting. We just did the table read for that, just when the actors sit around and [01:06:00] read through the script for the first time.

Mm-hmm. People were tearing up at the table read. Wow. This one of yours you wrote? Oh no, I didn’t write this. Uh, Jason Richardson wrote it. Okay. I worked with him on a previous project, so I’m excited about that because it’s a complex character and I go through a range of emotions and mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And to be able and be, I’m in almost every scene and so Excellent.

I’m carrying the film, so I’m, to me, that’s the next level for me. Excellent. Well, Peter, we wanna appreciate you coming on our program, man. You well, this has been fun. Excellent job, man. We covered a whole lot of stuff. I don’t think there was a moment in which somebody wasn’t saying something. Oh, that’s how we do it, man.

And, and I really want you to continue to, come on. We gonna be watching your career. Invite me as everything comes out, invite me back and I’ll say, yes, any premieres you got, please keep us in there. Okay. Or if you know something, I think we’re gonna be doing a premier for, um, uh, a man, the last shop on Walnut.

Excellent, excellent. You know, and we, we wanna make sure we be a part of that. So what I usually do with the, from my show, and I’ll give you guys this camera, you got this camera to say whatever you want. If you wanna tell people how [01:07:00] they can reach you, if you need investors for your new movies, let ’em know all of that stuff.

I’m going to also leave how they can get in contact with you in, in the disclaimer below, and they’ll be able to look at a description box and get all that information. So right now, Peter, it’s on you. Well, I just want to thank you and the listening audience for tuning in. To strategic moves with my good and longtime friend, Kenny Doll.

And I wanna say that I hope that during this discussion I said something that perhaps you can apply in your everyday life. You know, I like to think that I’m the poster child for reinvention, for rejuvenation, for reimagination and Renaissance, uh, in even into one’s middle years. So don’t ever give up on your passions.

Pursue them aggressively, be willing to do the work. It’s not gonna come for free, it’s not gonna come easy. But, um, when you’re pursuing your passions, there’s nothing that makes it easier to get up every morning. And so then let me also say hi to my wife Lisa, who’s been so tremendously supportive over the years.

[01:08:00] And two, the three people who continue to inspire me, Ryan, Charles Jones, Leah, Danielle Jones, and Evan Cook Jones. Okay. Love you. And love you Cleveland. That’s Peter Lawson Jones. We’ll see y’all next Sunday. This is,