Finding Purpose and Community: Dr. Napoleon Harris on Faith, Leadership, and Lif
00:00:00 hey what’s up everybody you tuned in to another episode of strategic moves I’m your host Ken this is a place where we bring art culture politics and business all together and we do it every Sunday right here on this podcast but when I’m not shooting this podcast I am the owner of strategic resources consultant and the founder of the africanamerican men’s Action Network we call it amen we’ve been doing political campaigns public and government relations work right here in the state of Ohio for over 25 years met some very interesting people along the way and we
00:00:33 want to make your next move a strategic move so this program gives us an opportunity to do just that I get to bring on some of the people I met we come in we talk about some of the things we learned over our years of being in business and in life and hopefully it’s something you’ll get out of it that’ll help you with your business or your personal life so if that’s something you’re interested in if this sound like a program you might want to continue to listen to All I need you to do is hit the like button hit the notification Bell as well so that you will know
00:01:02 the next time a program is coming on so today without further Ado we’re going to jump right into it but first before we get going we got to give it up to the number one podcast producer in the city of Cleveland today that’s none other than DJ TR what’s happening man what’s going on what’s going on every day is a holiday every day is a holiday man what’s going on in Cleveland this weekend anything we need to know what’s happening before we get going what’s going on in Cleveland well you know um I didn’t get to get to that show I wanted to go to that Joe and TOA show but I
00:01:40 heard it was pretty good really yeah it was packed from what I’ve seen on Facebook but I didn’t see a clip of of Cleveland doing the T A Line Dance So I’m still trying to catch me a clip to see how if they went crazy when she did did her song yeah you know that was the thing we was waiting to see should have happened oh you know what I do got one though what about the halftime show what did you think about Usher I think Usher blew that out the water man I I I can’t even lie and that performance kind of renewed that he did really good you know I think he did really good and
00:02:16 I guess he’s already ready to go on tour and I already hear people complaining that his tickets are too high so well he just did that residence I mean why would he go on tour I mean he I mean he just did a residence I mean residence is like a tour in itself right and now you do the Super Bowl what he going to tour for how much more money he got to get well you know he dropped I mean you gonna take advant when you performing on the Super Bowl you gonna take advantage of every opportunity you can so he dropped I think he dropped the album the Friday before Super Bowl called coming
00:02:52 home and then he already had his tour because I guess he got such rave reviews about his resident see and ain’t everybody going to Vegas I mean you got your people that go to Vegas and they may catch it but they not going to Vegas just to do that but if you in Vegas that’s one of the highlights or one of the tour attractions for that time being so now that he got such Ray reviews you know now he’s coming to a city near you how was that what do you think about that Alicia Keys yeah Alicia Alicia Keys that dress so well I don’t even know if it was a dress a
00:03:32 bodysuit that was all body it was it was that was all suit with that body let me put it that way that was a lot of body with a little suit she look like Supergirl and all that she was she was in their type and all I could think about was that y’all know y’all ain’t supposed to have y’all women around user everybody was like look already a me already a me together said don’t bring your woman around me you know you play for real he play for real you know I was like look at us man he just don’t get enough D he but he did it great man I thought the stage was Immaculate
00:04:13 I love the lights on the stage everything he did a great job great job because I think on one of his songs uh it it turned into a clock so when he did that verse yeah was 7 o00 on theop top exactly yes he did that and it looked beautiful that was huge that was hug he just had so many hits he was just dropping them and he just had to keep them moving but it it I I thought he did great I I don’t think he was as good as Dr Dre and Snoop and I’m gonna give it to Snoop and Dre I think Snoop Dre compare apples to oranges Snoop Dre 50 c Eminem I mean you getting a full yeah no I’m
00:04:56 just talking show I’m not talking art it’s just show but you know for Usher to be the headliner with a couple guests coming on songs I thought he did good I mean I thought he did excellent excellent excellent and shows you how many hits he got from Over the year yeah that’s true that’s true and that’s why I said I thought he did great other than that overall great program I thought he did great Super Bowl didn’t end quite the way I thought it was did you what was you rooting for I wasn’t rooting for nobody but the Browns and after that it was over with so it didn’t matter to
00:05:28 me that commercial they had about the Browns yeah that’s it all I was INE make it to the Super Bowl yeah that’s it we money back yeah that was all it was other than that um after Usher I looked at it I said good Kansas City’s not gonna win and I turned the TV off better against my homes against myom against my homes I looked up and like look at this here I just can’t believe this and and and and was Taylor Swift there yeah you know I mean so that’s why I Swifton got probably uh I estimated about a100 million in advertisement this year geez that I was just done with it all right
00:06:08 man let’s get off of that we gotta get to our guest who came in here to spend some time with us he is a a new Minister here in Cleveland Ohio he had took over a church here really historical church here in our city has a lot of Rich history being um a leader in some social justice issues and things around and all kinds of issues along those lines the pastors of that church has always been Community oriented Dr Reverend Marvin mcml was uh Minister there that all of us here locally and nationally some of you guys out there who might be listening to our program knows very
00:06:50 well and he was a really good gentleman back in our days of him going I remember he ran for US Senate helped him on that and a few other little things he tried to do politically but his number one place to be was always in the pool pit and his lessons that he’s taught people for years so the gentleman we have in our studio today is taking over the H of that and he’s going to make his own Mark here in Cleveland and do his own thing and set his own boundaries and some new dreams for that church and his dreams for what’s going to happen there and just what’s
00:07:25 going on here in Cleveland he’s a young Minister and we’re going to get a chance to talk with him about the church and we’re gonna talk about life and everything else that’s on our mind all right so without further Ado everybody let’s welcome Dr Reverend Napoleon Harris to our program thank you brother thank you thank you for coming in here today thank you for having us it’s a honor honor to be here oh man it’s just an honor to have you in the house man thanks for taking the time to come on and talk with us so man tell us are you a Clevelander you from here or this is
00:08:00 home this is home this home I I I am a graduate class 99 of Benedict and high school okay um so this is home my dad Pastor second Metropolitan Baptist Church at the time was on 79th in Quincy okay so it’s really really home I got baptized at Union Grove Baptist Church was on depend on I mean it’s you can stand on 89th and throw a stone or you can stand on 93rd hit it Stone right on Quincy so right around the corner from uh the two churches that really were instrumental and cultivating my spirituality and that’s where I’m pastoring the church now so sometimes Sunday
00:08:36 morning or just period I intentionally a drive down Quincy uh intentionally drive down Sunday nth just gained a different kind of energy passing those historic institutions that uh that that that really nurtured and we me so yeah this is home so how was it growing up as a PK here in Cleveland you know I just don’t have anything else to compare it to so I guess it was all right for me at times it was good at times it was horrible yeah it was it was you know you could uh I grew I’m I’m Church kid you have brothers and sisters I I I do have I have siblings um I had a sister um in house
00:09:13 that I grew up with and I have other siblings as well that uh we we didn’t grw up in the same house but we we a family and um you know we were at church all the time well you know it was it was it was okay you know um it it it instilled a fondness of church um inside of me um and I I had great uh memories of of of church and being in church as a kid um I was socialized there we there um so I I love it I love it absolutely love so did you grow up as involved in the church was you part of the
00:09:51 young deacons and all of that stuff the young everything whatever whatever whatever whatever was there we were in it you know that the way it was um and we loved it we traveled uh different places um with the church um I mean it was just it was great it kept me grounded it showed me um other other aspects of reality okay um so so for instance we were we we grew up um in Warrenville I’m a Warrenville Guy and um you know Warrenville was one reality um but um coming to the church on 79th it’s a different real same city or you know Tech same areion but different realities you know
00:10:36 and um it gave me a broader perspective of of what life was like for for for a variety and array of different people you know what I mean so I’m I’m I love that I love that communal aspect of the church and it wasn’t about have a have not because it’s always somebody with more it’s always somebody with less but we were able to to connect on the common ground of of Christ and spirituality and have common experiences you know it was beautiful man still beautiful yeah so was was one of the more difficult um states of growing up get in trouble man yeah no people have they um people
00:11:12 can have unrealistic expectations for the pastor the pastor’s family um for or and leadership in general right you know um and I remember uh you know people would I I would get blamed for things I didn’t do boy if any brother with dark skinn would glasses a little chubby man if he was doing something wrong it was me you know somebody said I saw you you was smoking walking down the street I was like I don’t smoke cigarettes you know it wasn’t me you know yeah he was he was on kman how I get on kman I don’t even drve right you know but uh yeah those kind of things um and then you
00:11:50 know uh I remember my dad my dad’s old school man do not play did not play uh I remember uh getting in trouble think I got talking in Church playing around you know being the kid on the kid on the kids Pew and uh we got a little too loud he was up preaching and he looked down you know he was one that’s gonna get you right you know right and uh when you his son you know the other kid might can get away a little bit you know what I’m saying but like me it was like oh you think it’s funny going in the corner stand in the corner when we get home tit and you up like ah man right and
00:12:26 everybody knows you know so you know but man I I fast forward um I’m so appreciative of of of my upbringing the church um both my parents grandparents you know the whole village man blessing so how was it as a teenager in those years of going through high school college with being um able and having that was it more of a uh did you have a opportunity to get some learning experiences through that or how did being a PK help shape some of those difficult times you know growing up in the church as as we did um and particularly as I did um it’s not even so much
00:13:07 the church I it was definitely the church but but it wasn’t just church as the building right the church as the experience and the experience that comes home with you right so um I saw modeled in my family modeled with my mother my father my grandparents um I saw modeled that God was real right you know it wasn’t performative it wasn’t it wasn’t wasn’t something that was performed it was it was it was who we were right so we were raised that way you know what I mean okay so um getting into to high school it was I was not um Jesus Jr I was I was not that I’m appreciative that
00:13:45 my parents allowed me to be a whole human being okay um because now I’m not at midlife trying to recreate my teenage years or be 20 again right I had that time okay right that’s right you know what I mean but but because of the other end of the spectrum understand an understanding a devotion a commitment to God that was organic that I got to get my way okay I didn’t have to relate to God the way my folks did I got to relate to God the way I did and they gave me that space and that Grace so even in those years awkward years of of trying to find who you were
00:14:18 as a teenager you know God was always somewhere in that in that in that equation and um I learned leadership in the church organic authentic um real life Leadership because I was probably 12 teaching teaching the uh Teenage class and I wanted to teach it because all the cool kids were teenagers and I was a little bit younger so you know I didn’t want to teach it I should say I wanted to be in the class and the only way that that worked you know was like you know you’re teaching I’m like teaching I’m like yeah but you know what that’s a good way I thought that’s a
00:14:51 good way in because they have to listen to me and you know what you know what you know what I think a girl might like that you know so yeah you know but uh I learned uh my father was um very serious about that you know and I’m thinking like oh man I just read the book and I tell everybody to read the book and uh we’ll take time reading the book and before you know Sunday school’s over with my dad’s like that ain’t teaching you know oh what’s the lesson I mean he would drill me on it how you
00:15:19 gonna explain that what is it about you know I had no idea how um how fortunate that was I was going man this dude man goly you know but uh but it it he was honing um a hermeneutic um and homic Acuity those are um preacher words for how we understand the Bible okay um how we how we read um it how we make meaning of it and I started getting that at at an early age without you know any any idea that I would would would be in Ministry you know that was the cost to be cool so so what so you was doing that and what college did you go to oh I went to the illustrious Tennessee State
00:16:03 University Nashville Tennessee so nice I went Thrice went three times really so you went back oh I kept going back so um I went for undergrad H amazing experience um H amazing experience um lifechanging um okay and as soon as I graduated um I went right back and got my masters um in the in the course of getting my masters um I accepted and announced a call into Ministry so um I’m my my dad instilled me that the call to preach is the call to prepare so I’m like okay well I know education that’s all I know I know education I know educational leadership I don’t know
00:16:45 anything about you know Seminary Ministry so um I I wanted to enroll at American Baptist College and the president of American Baptist College told me absolutely not he told me would wouldn’t take me he said you belong over at Vanderbilt you have a master’s degree you can’t come back here and get an undergraduate degree just G over there like sir I that’s like jumping right he’s like boy if you don’t go I went over there um went to Vanderbilt Divinity School um so grateful for that experience
00:17:20 um got called to a church in Connecticut um moved there um on faith um while I was there um I started working back in education leaned on that degree to kind of support myself um went to school at what did I go first University of Bridgeport um to get recertified to teach and teach in the state of Connecticut um then uh I started working in special ed so I went back to school again Southern Connecticut State University to pick up uh the uh correct documentation and lure and uh to be able to do that um was working byoc as special special a teacher and Pastor
00:18:02 then the Lord was kind enough to send me back to Nashville this time as an adult with a family and um pastored there incredible Church incredible people in both places um love the community in both places Mr Seafood in Connecticut but love the Hot Chicken in Nashville so it was balanced out um while there um I was like you know I could probably finish what I was going to start because my plan was to do a Doctorate in Education so I jump back into TSU and uh there at TSU uh finished and completed my doctorate while the world was going uh into the apocalypse called
00:18:38 Co right right wow say I pick up me a doctor degree while y’all doing all of that no I was I was already in process when it when it hit um and uh that was to be honest that was one of the most uh difficult times in my life um it was just it was so much all at the same time so you know leading a congregation pastor congregation um at the time First Baptist Church South incredible congregation incredible Church um but we had never seen anything like covid and so leading leading through that period um do you do you know what do you do do you you know Uncle Sam is giving
00:19:18 out this money do we take this do we not take that we research this what do we do how do we keep people as safe as possible um and yet at the same time you know still be engaged and active in in Ministry how how so trying to balance all of that um then you know we were all home we were all home correct two little children we were all home right right and at the same time writing a dissertation so I’m applying for for for funding for this applying for funding for that writing a dissertation also wrote for the Sunday School publishing board so I’m I got assignments I’m
00:19:52 writing commentary I’m writing uh Sunday school series I’m writing a dissertation I’m doing classes online worked with the stem program that we had um doing working and helping uh with some of the curriculum and then you know Co hits him we have to Pivot and now was online so it’s like you know how do how do you do all of those things at the same time I still don’t know I’m just grateful and thankful that we on the other side of it now you got through it you got through it so let me I want to go back a little bit sure I GNA go back when you said that um you got called to preach
00:20:25 in your second year no I was after you graduated your after you got your bachelor’s degree right well so the Lord told me um communicated to me about uh I I don’t want to you know what I I want to go back some because I wanna I don’t want this to sound like something that is otherworldly although it’s extraordinarily otherworldly but we talk about call we’re really talking about purpose that’s where that’s where I want to go you mean we really talking about purpose um I remember the the first incident of what are you going to do with yourself and uh we were having this Workshop all
00:21:06 of my life is church we were in church having this Workshop in the basement at second met and uh we were looking doing talking about spiritual gifts and you know this with the with the teenagers and um I remember the facilitator told us you know you need to ask the question how are you going to honor God with whatever it is that you do and your gifts and skills and all of that and he had a section where he asked us to really pray and I did I was like you know what uh I’m going to really pray and ask God what God wants me to do and um and he he was so charismatic he said the
00:21:38 Lord’s going to give you a vision of what he wants you to do and I’m like I kind of want to know you know you’re teenager you trying to find yourself and uh I closed my eyes I prayed and a picture of me in the pull pit popped up and I opened my eyes I said nope shy again God not that one really and um and then uh another time I was I was driving I remember I was on on miles dve down miles and um and I I knew um God was communicating to me that he wanted me to preach and I just was like look I’m not doing that come back maybe when I’m 50 you know when I’m 50 you know I’ve live life
00:22:14 out out maybe I rock with you then but you know no way buddy I I’m going to college um I’m gonna try these girls out I’m gonna have you know I had a whole list of things I need to do you know and I’m like this is going to cramp my style um and that’s essentially uh for the most part kind of what what I thought what was happening um and then um and then while I was in college you know there would moments when uh God would would ask me again and I was like no you know I don’t want to do that
00:22:47 and um it’s funny because everybody on Earth um seemed like knew this but me right it all was more accepting that my mother would tell me that she knew when she was carrying me my grandmother tell me that I would tell her when I was a child and I’m like I don’t have me you know Brothers will walk up uh oh my bad man you know I I I Cass wouldn’t sell me weed man right right right no re re I ain’t no you know it was it was it was like that and um you always had this thing about you where everybody even though like you said even when you was trying to mingle
00:23:21 they wasn’t gonna let you mingle it was I mean I mingled you know I mingled I mixed you know um and that and but but it was also clear that like my purpose was different that’s correct you know what I’m saying like like that that that purpose was was there and so accepting the call was really accepting that purpose that God has set for me got and it and it really in truth is it a one time thing that’s one of the misconceptions it’s like okay well I you know all right I’ll preach then but God was like okay that’s good that you said yes to that but my call is not just to you
00:23:55 saying yes to a thing it’s a continual avail ability to say yes to me so it was like okay well all right so I’m okay I’m preaching but but what else though yeah you’re going to also pastor and you’re gonna Pastor like this you like your disposition is going to be like this you’re not your dad you’re not anybody else you’re you and you and and and you submit it to me looks like this and try it in try it today and then you get up tomorrow you try it again tomorrow you know and and that yes that yes takes you you know it might take you to court it might take you to to to jail
00:24:30 it takes you all the places other people don’t really want to go but that’s purpose you know what I mean that at least my purpose is it’s why I try to write it’s why I try to teach it’s why um it’s it’s it’s all it’s responding trying to respond uh wholeheartedly to to God’s ask and God’s demand as I understand it you know and and and and the thing is is you know all of us are called maybe not to the pull pit um maybe not to to preaching but every last one of us is is called to something we’re all called to activism we’re all called to to um to service we’re all called to to lives of
00:25:11 meaning and purpose and um and it’s a matter of will you surrender or not for me I didn’t find peace until I did I I did all of the wild all the wild Cowboy crazy you know I mean it nothing I don’t I don’t I’ve not met anybody that tells me anything or confides anything that surprises me I’d be like oh that makes sense trust me I did it you know um but I didn’t have peace you know I didn’t have peace um until until I started walking in that purpose until I said yes until I decided to put to Center my life around God and what God wanted me to do you know and you say that
00:25:52 purpose is anything it could be anything it could be it could be it’s it’s each of us are different and um and because of that God put all kind of incredible stuff in everybody and you know one of one of the sweetest things in life is operating within that purpose you know what I mean like you could be a whole Corvette you could be a whole Bentley and the show don’t make you a boat right me and you got a lot of people um you know God Made You engineered you to be a Bentley and you out here trying to be a sandom a airplane and your head up against the wall I can’t figure out
00:26:30 why it’s not shaking for you because you you’re not walking in your in the purpose you haven’t sat down long enough to Reon with God about what you should do and what brings God honor and Glory it’s a lot of people are living for other people living for the approval of other people living for uh uh you know influenc by um what they see in terms of social media and and you know we still teenagers remember you’re a teenager you know you you everything is because you for the homies or for your friends or for your partners and it’s sick it’s 50 and 60 year old folks still that’s
00:27:05 right you know the Applause external Applause is what you what you looking for living for cat with women they can’t stand right now that’s your main squeeze why because you think somebody else thinks she hot stuff and y’all can’t get along and you will be much happier over here with uh s s Sally May whatever but you ain’t giving her a shot because you think somebody was would say she not whatever right and vice versa for sister yes so let’s go into then the church then what do you think your purpose for the church you know we getting into um the church and and I know you’re
00:27:39 coming new to the church and we talked about um Reverend Mack um and some of the stuff he did what do you see your going into that you gotta be one of the younger pastors that the church didn’t had gotta be I haven’t been around a long time I haven’t seen nobody look as young as you in that pool pit running things so and and and and and one of our bigger churches here so what do you think would be you you see your purpose over there what what do you see U on the social justice side I I I we I’ll let you break it down spiritually and then give me the social justice side as well of
00:28:14 that well those two things first thing is is the misconception that they’re two separate things okay they’re the exact same thing you can’t talk spirituality me unless you’re talking about how it plays out in society okay and um social Justice what we call social justice is really biblical Justice it’s God’s right ordering of the world so that’s that you know what I mean that’s that so um but let me let me back up some first um man the gift that is Antioch Baptist Church wow incredible people and that’s the understatement right um and then the gift that is the Reverend
00:29:00 Dr Marvin mcml The Marvelous one the gift he is to uh I’m just gonna say the gift he is because you start breaking it into the sections man just his scholarship his preaching his ministry his his his everything um and and also uh uh between uh Dr mcmls time of service uh was another uh brilliant uh young Pastor uh Reverend Dr Todd Davidson yes um and uh he had yes still has he’s he’s you know ministering we swapped he went home and I came home right okay uh he’s ministering still um with uh with with his uh brand of Excellency where he is in Virginia um but he was uh very passionate
00:29:51 um about the Lord as well um and so it’s it’s exciting to to I don’t think of it as replacing I think of it as a relay race um and we each are just running our leg of the race um as best we can um and so it’s exciting to hand to to grab the Baton and um trying to run with it and and knowing that you know sooner than later I got to pass it off too and I wanna I wanna I want us to be up when I had when I hand it off right exactly so what what does that what does that kind of look like you know there’s um there’s a song We Sing a to keep I have and uh one of the lines is to serve
00:30:31 this present age my calling to fulfill and I think that’s what it is um and so we we we have we have a Playbook we have um we have the Bible um we’re able to rightly divide that that is to interpret it and um our goal is to say as Jesus said when when he opened the scroll in Luke he’s like yo this day is being fulfilled and that that’s that’s what preaching Ministry pastoral Ministry is we should be able to stand up and say right now it’s happening right now not down the line not and by but there there there is an aspect of this kingdom of God that’s breaking into our
00:31:10 midst right here right now inside of us around us that’s the M that’s the model of ministry now you can think of the kingdom of God as several ways most people some people will think of it as heaven but that’s slave religion we’ll talk about that later uh what what we dealing with is um God’s way that things should be so if we profess that God is God then we have a responsibility to God as maker as Creator as ruler as Savior as Master what whatever Lang language you want to use there we have an obligation to respond to God right um and and the kingdom of God Is Us fulfilling that
00:31:52 I like to think of it as how we would behave if God was right behind us looking over our shoulder right how would you treat the poor how would you how would you treat uh those who are hungry those who are naked how how would you behave if God was right there how would you how would you treat your wife how would you treat your children how would you how would you treat how would you treat uh uh uh Ken with two wins you know what I’m saying Brother D how would you how would you treat him you know uh how would you treat the people in your employ how would you how would you govern how
00:32:27 would you a city how would you lead a a county how would you lead a nation like that’s the kingdom of God and we do we’ve done such a diservice by detaching it from its right now implications and putting it over into heaven and the buy and bu and it reminds me of that old adage um our ancestors would say yo when um when the missionaries got here we had all the land and they had the Bible when they left they had all the land and we had the Bible and it wasn’t a f tra was a fair TR so you know I’m going to stay on that point because you know you you you said something
00:33:03 there you talked about um heaven and slave slave talk so what do you mean by that all right so I’m looking at your picture here with with Malcolm and uh this is almost sound very Malcolm xus right you know but but it’s it’s really uh it’s really very jesuses right so so Malcolm would say that you can’t expect your enemy is gonna teach you anything right right so check this out Jesus died you know that everybody knows that story right what kind of death did he have from the Bible uh he was crucified crucified you know who gets crucified no enemies of the state
00:33:57 okay let that sit in for a moment M enemies of the state enemies of the Empire that’s correct that’s who got crucified so you could be a bad person and and and just be jailed killed or whatever but to be crucified was a political statement you went against Rome and and that we gonna hang you up so everybody know don’t you ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever go against r okay right that so and it’s a political death above him in multiple languages was the inscription King of the Jews guess what that’s a political term how could
00:34:43 we preach a gospel that has no political impact yeah who would tell you to do that right your enemies right Paul jailed ion this was political movement kingdom of God a political term M Lord of lords king of kings are political terms the whole the whole the whole gospel is countercultural it a lot of it is lost because we don’t necessarily know the ins and outs of of first century or the ancient near East right so King of Kings Lord of lords those were terms that were used of Caesar so what you have is this uh disc record ancient disc record to say you’re not
00:35:35 the way he is yeah so but that’s all lost and and it’s just you know you come to church and get your soul saved and go to heaven cause because that I can I can keep you do see I I I went to a CR Ghana twice so meaningful I I went back brought my wife and next year Lord willing uh as many of the Saints from an and or anywhere else that wants to go will make that pilgrimage too because you got to see the slave dungeon both at El I mean there are multiple of them but we will go to the one at Elina and we will go to the one at Cape Coast you have to go see these things and you have to see
00:36:16 how right above the slave dungeon the men’s slave dungeon in both and in most castles was the church now you ask yourself what kind of religiosity will allow you to steal people lock them underneath you you hear them moaning and crying chained together in uh ankle high rivers of human feces huh what what the the Captain’s Quarters uh would be always right by the women’s dungeon and he would have them come out chained pick which one he wanted she would be washed and taken to him to be raped then rechain and anybody that resisted they also would rape men uh as well anyone that
00:37:16 resisted was tortured and or just killed now right here was this church M because that was a gospel that was empty that had no no social impact of how we should treat each other it was the religion of Empire see for Empires to succeed uh uh Dominican talks about domination system uh uh gong talks about uh violence and and and violence uh is like an iceberg we may see direct violence but it rests on these other unseen parts that just become assimilated into the culture and now we go back to uh croan talks about a domination system or Empire what it needs it needs to corroboration
00:38:14 of Law and it needs the corroboration of religion to normalize it so what you’re seeing um take a Billy Graham okay access to presidents I ain’t talking about this redacted Billy Graham that they trying to pedal us now Billy ain’t said nothing on the record to improve race relations in America he didn’t with all that power and influence NOP you you’re making a choice to advance the Empire of CA so we call it slave religion because it it says nothing to right now it allows a slave master to on his way to church pick out a slave tie her up uh have her husband tied up and
00:38:53 beaten so he can rape her then go to church come by of church and you know everything is Pizza cream and Ros it put this wire up over there so that you won’t um just grab it from like the back there you go okay and then all the way up at the top yep over that little thing there you go okay now we’re good so let me ask you then the the slave religion and and and that I should say slave master religion yeah no because the slaves had a whole different religion yeah yeah so on the slave masters religion that you talk about then because that’s one of the things man
00:39:28 older I got I I I I’m struggling with what do you supposed to believe man you know I I one thing is for sure the older I get you know and I sit back and I look at a lot of the holidays and some of the stuff that goes through and the stuff we spend a lot of time spending money and and worshiping and all of that stuff too I really believe is a bunch of mumble jumble and bull crap and I’m kind of right I’m really right where you at so it’s amazing that you had said all of that so if if if it’s the Masters slave masters religion what religion should we be following then so I think
00:40:14 of it as radical Christianity radical gets a bad rap but you look at it emically radics it means back to the root at the root of Christianity right we could we could summize it like this in fact uh Jesus gives us a great example he says love the Lord with all your heart ask the first and the greatest and the second one is just like it meaning it’s just as important love your neighbor as yourself the rest of this is trying to teach us how to do those how to honor God and how to love our NE See We All God’s Children right and um I remember I I remember um before I met my wife
00:40:58 um being out in the dating gang and I uh dating this sister she had a kid wasn’t my kid you know um and I I thought I kind of liked her but I wasn’t feeling her kid and you can you know that relationship obviously didn’t work because it’s like you can’t think you love me and don’t have no love for my what my kid right yeah so then this same thing with God how how we going to say that we love God if we don’t love God’s what kids so so so so when you talk about what to believe or what’s at the heart rather what’s at the heart of what I believe I can’t tell you
00:41:33 what to believe I can tell you what I believe you can watch me and if it looks like something to to to bank on that’s what you do that’s that’s real witnessing right um so so then at the heart of of my faith the heart of Christianity is is loving God but also loving God’s people and there are there are ways that we do that and the Bible reminds us that it’s not just loving the people maybe that Liv in my ZIP code or on my street or my little CER Sack or whatever but also learning how to love the people who are poor uh the people who who Others May May write off as
00:42:10 poor and we’ve had years decades centuries even of misrepresentation of that but and not even so much centuries of it necessarily um but but modern thought has been shaped by um very imperialized uh thinking right um so again uh I’m I’m preaching Through The Sermon on the Mount the first part of the Beatitudes and this is the most um uh you know what you don’t need to hear that I got a perfect example for you Super Bowl commercial okay that was beautiful Jesus commercials they had on there really nice really be got Jesus washing feet different
00:42:52 people watching oh it was very spiritual where’s the Super Bowl at run where they hit for about three four million five no matter of fact $6 million okay $6 million right I think I saw I got called away from the TV but I know they I think I saw like two of them okay okay so you you mean you got6 million to do something for Jesus that honors him the Jesus in the book would have rather instead of being on Front Street and performative Christianity the Jesus that we read about in the Bible would have rather you taken that $6 million and fed clothed
00:43:36 visited that was his mission statement so on that point is it safe to say that times have changed and maybe the new Jesus need more people knowing that he exists oh uh yeah you know what there there’s that quote that says uh it’s not it’s not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting it’s that uh you know there’s been nobody to really try it right you know um and again it there it’s it has it goes back historically you you think about when it was um the original organic that it was and then it went above ground right it went above ground um and and there was
00:44:24 a lot of good that came from that um and then it became embraced as uh an acceptable religion uh by the Roman Empire and then at one point it became an official religion or the official religion of the Roman Empire and one of the sad things about that is um it it it it was co-opted right it was co-opted and and and historically there were there was there was this was not something that was just welcome with open arms people contested you know they were challenged there were issues to it you know and um and that’s one of the wonderful things I think sitting down and talking with folks
00:45:03 and hearing these stories of how Christianity came to be what and getting back again to the to the root to what what was Jesus really about what was Jesus really on what was Jesus really doing because right now people and especially in the church people say stuff like I all I I preach Jesus what that mean you got people in love with an idea of Jesus but not even witha who Jes what Jesus’s were whates there was who preached sermon on Jesus Greatest Hits and his church was like where you do where you get this from it’s like this is what it is
00:45:42 to be a Christian you know in fact there were evangelicals who were pulled um and they were upset that g that Jesus would say turn other cheek said well they need to take that out of the Bible right so so how how are you guys Bible Thumpers over here but don’t want to do any of the stuffff over there yeah you know and so it’s again it gets back to you know one cultivating a relationship with God and at the center of that loving God responding to God by loving everyone understanding that they’re a person too who God made and um that’s what’s missing in our world
00:46:27 so you you you you’re a scholar of know about that pretty much you you work over there with M mckl and you got a few degrees on it so you what is the oldest religion I don’t know oldest religion it’s prob some something something indigenous to where uh uh probably I think subsaharan Africa is where we agree that um that people came from so whatever is indigenous to there uh this is gonna sound wild coming from a Christian pastor but I don’t think so um uh one of the thing you know there’s a move to decolonize um and part of that is at least embracing or I would
00:47:13 say maybe not even so much embracing because that that you know you you you need to do what you have to do for yourself but certainly de demonizing okay um indigenous belief systems right and and there’s biblical precedence for that when Paul is um Mars Hill um he notices that they have a have temples to a variety of gods and he sees one as this unnamed God and he uses that as an object lesson to kind of present his his beliefs um and um I always find that passage wonderful because it shows a Christian response to a pluralistic society and it doesn’t have to
00:47:54 be imperialistic meaning do it my way mine is the best you know he you can relate to where people are I can respect as a Believer I know who God is to me right and I can respect who God might be to you and without without trying to put me at the center okay and my experience of God at the center because that’s to severely limit God that’s to say that God only does this and God only relates this way that’s crazy that’s crazy that that ain’t God if that’s if God can if God is that predictable
00:48:27 that guy can go into my small algorithm that’s a very very small guy right a small guy your algorithm that’s a very very real smart minute right right I’m saying so so do you think that um today with the way the church is going and and we know that talking to other pastors and other there’s been a decline in um the amount of people that go to church or and that going and in the belief system is that because you believe the church is not rooted in the community I think uh there’s a lot of there’s probably no one definitive reason um overall
00:49:14 I don’t think it’s fair to say churches aren’t rooted in the community because churches still um have very deep roots to the community very deep ties the community and are still very active in the community by and large most churches um and so so there’s that but I think what we’re looking at is a overall decay in the moral fabric of our community well that’s the part I’m talking about you know what I mean and the reason why I say that part I’m talking about is that that part right there and we now we can get down to the get
00:49:47 down that that part right there has been my uh um issue with um churches here in Cleveland um I believe that at some point or another the church has gotten political but not um and get got rid of this um um activism hat and what I mean by that politically they line up for the political stuff and I’ve been a part of the political stuff for a long time and so I can be saying telling on myself even with it but I will say that yes the they lineer politically but I think the decay of the moral fiber of our community is the lack of the people who have that moral compass standing
00:50:39 up for the people in the community which makes the people in the community feels as if no one is standing up for them and that’s why we got what we got man who can who could who could uh argue with that I think um I think there’s certainly some aspects and elements of that that are true and you’ve been here put in work for almost 30 years so you know uh you you you’ve been here front line and Center uh I don’t know man I’m gonna say I go back and I think I listen to some of the some of the great stories from some of the um the older guard that has transitioned or is transitioning um
00:51:19 um I think about um giants like Dr cabis who’s still with us Dr Moss was still with us and um and um and I had the privilege to um to sit with some of these Giants I don’t want to be in a name calling thing but you know they they would share things that blew my mind um and in fact um oh man I can’t Kay Evans um a buddy of mine wrote his autobiography um and and uh the city of Chicago came down so heavy on him and man you know they just hijacked this whole church movement and and and and and really just wouldn’t let him build a building right because he supported
00:52:02 King now most of the pastors didn’t not it was a whole you know and and I don’t have to go over to Chicago that happened in Cleveland too right right literally happened in Cleveland they were like don’t have him up have him up here right I heard those stories so so so I think sometimes we we think that the church has always been or that one that is monolithic right and it and and it just isn’t there have always there have been many of us to have subscribed to what I described as the slave masters religion and I don’t want to I’m not I’m I don’t want to belittle it because there
00:52:35 if it’s helping you right if it’s helping you um I’m not gonna call it evil or wrong and and and there there are there are aspects of maybe what is presented as traditional Christianity um that have helped folk make meaning of life and have helped our ancestors hanging there doing such horrible times the hope of Heaven I just did a funeral yesterday Lord we all are hoping for the resurrection but the the threat of faith that I adhere to says that I don’t have to just die to experience that Resurrection Paul says he he he says he’s hoping for the res he’s expecting the
00:53:16 resurrection right you know um I want to know him and the power of the Resurrection this is experience and exper I want this experiential knowledge of Christ he’s already told the Saints he in Christ so he’s already experiencing this and the power of the Resurrection his his expectation was that God would continually pick him up as as the more life would knock him down Christ would raise him up right so so this is our faith it’s just that it’s not always presented that way and so if if I if I’m thinking that it’s only one General Grand Resurrection I’m not g to risk my
00:53:52 life you know what I mean I’m not what do you think what do you you think kep King when his house is being bombed and and in the midst of the threats and the letters what may meca Evans Mecca it was their faith their spirituality so so it so it’s it’s it’s there it’s there uh but we haven’t always been monolithic to to your point um and the world Decay is oh it’s new it’s still new to our community it’s new to us um we have we have managed to hold on to that bit of our afrocentricity um throughout um slavery throughout Jim Crow uh we kept that aspect of
00:54:37 how God made us intact but we have literally um in some ways assimilated into a burning house not as uh not necessarily as as uh as we suppose but uh a burning House of of moral Decay right um and you think like what we accept as entertainment or as keeping it real um is just is is ridiculous and and I I I I just it’s personal for me I grew up in this I remember the time when uh folks like uh Dr Calvin buts and uh C Dolores Tucker were were taking a stand against um what was then called Gangster Rap and Snoop and pck and you know and I remember being mad how did man man Snoop just real
00:55:29 Pac just keeping it real we didn’t know we would signed up to be being brainwashed and that decency was being flushed down the toilet I’m gonna tell you cause I was that generation I I was playing that stuff I remember NWA first album came out dop man yeah and I was hell maybe last year out in the backyard getting ready to barbecue and everything I’m having one of my man moments we were I’m about to put on what I want to playday I’m about to put on me some old NWA man I put on dope man like what was I listening to I had to turn it off myself I was like oh and my kids are
00:56:12 grown man but I was just like I don’t even want my daughters even listening to this man I mean and I was like I remember literally rolling down the street bumping that man bumping it bumping it bumping it listen I I was a little bit I I was a little little younger man but I mean you know I I again that’s why I don’t I don’t judge I can’t pass judgment on on the Young Folks for what they listening to now because right I was listening to an album called ghetto dope right I’m telling this one was called in the mix and I’m in the mix of the crack epidemic we bumping
00:56:47 a song called dope man dope man that’s what we was bumping and you’re right so it started a long time ago it started a and and it’s just we’re looking at the natural consequences of of of that erosion to our morality and spirituality to the point like you know you look at like what what what is traffic that’s reality TV just isn’t real there’s no world in which you can have a disagreement with somebody young ladies can have a disagreement and and throw a drink on someone and uh and then go and take a trip the next day like you know that’s not real but but
00:57:26 but it’s being presented right you know what I mean as as real and and it’s not um and we’ve lost that connection with the Creator you know what I mean that that that connection that also made me be connected to my sister and my brother as well right because you can’t have this connection and not that connection they they go together we’ve lost that and we’ve lost that sense of morality it success is not measured by how much money you make or get so what you got the bag and right but but that part of that morality has been resending you know what I mean and and and it’s it’s it’s
00:58:07 that’s new for us we we we didn’t we we we had the sense of community you know um drugs drugs help do that um a lot of it um but it’s not just drugs I mean it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s been so many things it’s not just the the church hasn’t been it’s not just that it’s so much more than that you know I uh people would would jump on the church and I I’m not g to call myself a church Defender I mean you know but Church belong to God and God big enough to handle God’s own business but I do remind folks typically the kids who are in church aren’t the ones who are doing the other things T
00:58:45 typically are there exceptions yes but but more than likely that kid that that was that’s going to church you’re not clutching your parking book when they walk past yeah you know so I think I think um as a community we have to go back to a sense of morality that involves caliz around God and understanding the commitment to each other so what can the church do more in our communities you think to take a lead in that well we have service every Sunday uh you know Church you know at some point I think um uh we we have to get to a space of of some collective ownership for each
00:59:27 other yeah and for ourselves there’s there’s more available to I don’t want to I’m going stay with this question but is is is broader it’s looming I mean you know churches churches churches do have uh uh we do have our part to play we have to keep it real speak to issues that that are where people are and we got to reclaim Jesus right you know I uh about last last year MLK service I talked about reclaiming King m well we need to reclaim the King of Kings we need to reclaim Jesus that the the Jesus that people were willing to lay down their life to follow we need to reclaim that Jesus
01:00:05 the one who tells us to love our our enemies it’s hard but that’s the Jesus we need that Jesus is always in style that Jesus is always trending that Jesus is super dope but we kind of stashed him you know what I’m saying and churches you know what James con said this I agree I I we have to decide know when Jesus was on the cross um one of the things says man why don’t you save yourself he saved others that was one of the Jers he saved others let him save himself and and of and of course he didn’t save himself because in the course of saving others he could not save
01:00:46 himself I think that’s where churches are we have to decide whether we want to save the community or whether we want to save ourselves can’t do both you can’t do both you can’t do both we need new metrics to measure what success looks like and the past is how many people come how much money you raise how nice is your building facilities bodies benches budgets those three PS and that’s how we measure success that’s good for Walmart right it’s not good for God’s house how do we measure our success impact at lives did Mr Taylor go home and be a better husband did Mrs Taylor go
01:01:25 home and be a better wife can they accept their child uh who is samex loving or is they they can’t get with their child because because of something they heard you say um you know can you those are the those are the metrics for Ministry you know what I mean for those are the metrics for church you know can people come in there and learn soft skills and hard skills you know um Can can the poor who who have no place to go can they come in there and warm themselves during the day like that those are the ways that we broadcast and show the love of Christ so do you think the community is
01:02:00 asking too much of the church no we’re the church we the church okay we the church man we got so so again it we have we have we believe we have the Holy Spirit which is God God self living inside of us God is Incarnate inside of us allowing us to do the things that please God well that’s an awful lot of power right but we’ve been we’ve reduced it or we haven’t even tapped into it because we think the holy spirit is just what makes me have a shout and hoop or sing and oh you’re so anointed you got a great voice the holy spirit is all over you no you know know when the Holy Spirit is all
01:02:43 over me holy spirit is all over me when I would rather do something bad and I choose different right that’s what the holy spirit is all over me you know um when uh I I have a meeting with an elected official and I have to say something that I know they don’t want to hear that’s when that’s what that’s what the power of God is for for for that kind of stuff you know what I mean that’s that’s what the power of God is for so I I think we we have that we don’t we have not done the best job collectively tapping into that to um actualize um our faith and and what we believe and and to be
01:03:23 frank what Jesus is counting on us to do you arms and legs well you know I I think part of that also is um age wise I think that we’re at a point where new ministers like yourself and younger pastors are now coming in to be able to kind of change it up a little bit I think that that’s while some of the Pastors in our communities are long pastors been there long time and and and they done been through several different changes and I think for this new age of what this world is turning to because everything’s changing that um it’s going to take a different type of ministry
01:04:08 that’s all and and and and even to the speaking truth to power and I say that when like even when you say the uh Master’s religion type stuff which is a different way of explaining that which very interesting to me and we’ll definitely have more to talk about that I thought that was very interesting I think it’s what’s new about religion that everybody is kind of looking at these days so I think that that that’s going to be a big part and I think that again you and some of the other pastors and the younger pastors setting an example of what can be new I think is where we at you know
01:04:48 things change even when we talk about the Super Bowl almost every commercial if not every other commercial either had a i in it or had some robot in it or had some alien in it you know every one of the commercial and and if you notice everything changes and it goes from that it was like when the country was going through the thing of one everyone to accept um gays and gayism and all of that all the commercials and everything sort of were gearing towards that way and now as you see and I’m not picking on anyone but it’s just how we tune ourselves to things you know
01:05:26 commercial now is like a you know mixed couple always and either you know or they may just be all out gay that’s just the way it is and it was a time oh you’ll never see that to like you say it tuned us to getting that and I think that’s where we at now to your point that things are just really changing and it’s going to take some new thinking new way of getting to be able to sit down and interpret it to people in order so I’m very excited to see what you got you you you’re going to do over there because I think that’s interesting and we G to always be able to talk
01:06:00 I got some questions for you then let you roll out of here man if there was something you wish you could be better at what you think it would be if you wish it was something you wish you were better at uh it’s a lot of things but right now I’m gonna say at the top of my list is basketball um really oh I’ve been trying to exercise and I I play ball um a couple days out the week with some fellas over at the warville Y okay and uh yeah I’m I’ve never been good at basketball and uh you know now
01:06:31 you hitting midlife and uh I’m extremely horrible at basketball so uh that’s that’s probably at the top of the list I I would love to be better at basketball just so I could have one of those days when I can talk trash man and uh you know uh you just want to go out there and hit it up and talk smack and walk off the court huh yeah I do I do I do but it’s it’s fun I’m thankful for those fellas for um the fellowship the fun we had but also I mean all of us are uh taking control of our lives and trying to be healthy and encouraging each other uh to health um and having a little bit of
01:07:06 fun doing it you know what I mean um some really really great Brothers out there and uh you know uh for all our folks you know Fitness you know choose your struggle it is a struggle to to be healthy but it’s a big Earth struggle struggle to not be healthy so fellas go see that doctor oh no uh sisters go see that doctor uh you know you don’t got to put hot sauce on everything you ain’t got to fry everything all the time but you know uh and my wife is gonna remind me of that because I told her in my house uh we don’t eat chicken anyway but fries no I’m kidding U I don’t
01:07:48 have any I don’t have pool like that in my house man oh I about said wow that a good I don’t have pull like that in my house but no but seriously you know health is wealth and um uh I know you asking me questions but I I couldn’t help but but say that and it’s not just your physical health but your emotional mental health is a part of it too and your spiritual health is a part of it too and so um you know we have to be mindful of all of those things um and yeah I don’t apologize man you you brought a preacher on here man that’s what IE preach what’s the best compliment you ever got
01:08:26 ever best compliment you think you ever got maybe two uh um my wife said no it’s a few so my wife said yes when I answered the marrier I asked her um again if she regretted it she said no so those are probably some of the best compliments uh okay uh my children run up to me and hug me and call me daddy um how old are your kids uh 10 and eight yeah they still doing that they still do it man that’s great I love I think my kids did that till I they were about they around 10 or eight remember that 11 12 they stopped every day I used to walk in the door they said Daddy run to the door then
01:09:09 when they got a little older man they stop oh man wait and you let me know when they stop you like can they stop it happen you know I’m G be dark it’ll be dark for me man I’ll be wearing black all black it happened to all them especially the girl because you look forward to it and then they just stop one day you just come home and nobody’s nobody greets you you know and that would kill me Man U you know let them not coming and like get in my arms or oh that’s gonna happen bro it happened to all his dads I just hate to tell you if that’s what it is your day is
01:09:41 coming I know it but I’m I’m G hold on as long as I can please do the other best compliment I think my what uh when Dr mcml visits and says good sermon uh when my father says good sermon um and um and then um you know someone once told me that um when I preach they want to go and read the Bible for themselves that made me feel good because that’s like you know it makes you wanna well so so yeah those you know um U my mother my mother and my grandmother told me that they’re proud of the man that I am like like you know those are the things to me that I hang hang my
01:10:19 hat on my family um and um yeah those are my best compliments um what what’s your guilty pleasure no comment no you know what’s crazy I’m G tell you something I don’t I don’t have I don’t have one in the way that that you would suppose now I’m Not Jesus junr but Integrity To Me one there a lot of definitions for integrity but Integrity for me is the distance between you as you is and you as you ought to be okay um and um and that’s one definition of it but then another definition I subscribe to is if it’s something that’s like slimy that I know I shouldn’t be doing and I can’t
01:11:01 tell you about it then guess what I ain’t gonna do it right so I’m I’m I can stand like what’s uh ti ti I can stand on business stand on business so sweet’s not a guilty pleasure nothing that you just got much anymore because I just did a gastric bypass surgery again Health as well man I man you know I did the same thing man but the sugar is what I started craving more I can’t do sugar like that it it hurts me really yeah it hurts I I I do have cravings for it but I just it’s like in in in moderation I got some cherry sour I I bought it the at the start of the day and I
01:11:43 know I can only have like four of them you know what I’m saying and then I I get another half full and you know I same right man I got hooked on Twizzlers and then from there man open the doors w oh them cherries watch out for them boys I’m telling you they they a Gateway I know I know I know I know them little gateways man cuz them boys pack with a little sugar in them a lot of sugar I’ll be down I’ll be hurting oh boys they they ain’t no joke how about this if you could trade places with a person for one day who would it
01:12:19 be I don’t think anybody I mean I don’t think I don’t think I want to be I’m just still trying to unpack all all of me that’s me um I might I might like someone else’s lot you know like uh I had a partner got an amazing house I I could definitely live in his house for a day or two but I I don’t want to be him you know right right I want to be him yeah I want to be I’m I’m comfortable in my own skin that that’s a good answer is a lot of people gives that answer so is it’s not had one person who said they wanted to be Jesus Christ I was like really they said yeah
01:13:04 man I just really want to know I said really he said man I just really want to know I was like that’s interesting but this is the wild thing is that’s the expectation you’re supposed to be him we’ve been settling for trying to be like him when he expecting us to be like um yo you have I don’t know if you got the on we we talking about that that belt um and we’re supposed to be authentic replicas like that like like you know they you know belts or jerseys they all they have different levels of authenticity to them and you pay a little more you get the
01:13:43 actual Jersey that the players were on the field correct that’s what we’re supposed to be interesting yeah that’s what we supposed to be what’s the worst piece of advice you ever got uh I don’t know um oh don’t go to school tell me don’t go to school and the second and the second worst advice was akin to it um uh don’t take uh go to school but don’t learn anything there and then the third piece was basically other folks telling me to be like someone else yeah I mean don’t go to school then if you do go don’t learn nothing I mean that is some bad bad
01:14:31 advice Lord I got a lot of at like who the hell will tell you even don’t go to school if you don’t go don’t learn nothing I got a lot you’ll be surprised when I when I went to Divinity School of vanderbild that was that was what every not every but that was the M majority so many of the pastors that I knew pulled me aside man you know the fear was that they’re going to take your Jesus over there that was the fear so they it was selling them from from a place of Love okay so I I don’t I didn’t think of it as it wasn’t in the average so they weren’t being menacing or weird
01:15:02 they were they were like brother listen man you know you don’t they like I guess don’t fall for all of it they yeah you know and and and it was bad advice in that I was guarded as opposed to like really I still missed out on on some things I had to learn it later or harder way um as opposed to coming and just being open and cultivate what education is supposed to do cultivating my own constructive Theology and understanding of things you know and um and so I’m glad that that that I didn’t heed that advice and full you know DJ you got a question before we let the pastor leave yes
01:15:44 I do he always say that before he I had a question I’d be like why you ain’t say something all right where you got man all right um Pastor how were how was you received coming you know um behind or being the next uh Pastor after uh Dr MC michol um by the congregation being that you you were so much younger than him was there any push back was there any people going back and forth to uh put maybe somebody more like him or what was that whole process like you coming into um the historic Antioch Baptist Church yeah no so so um there was a pastor who served there for uh like a a decade
01:16:42 uh between Dr mcml and and I so the congregation he and I are the same age so he was even younger when he came right um so the congregation was used to um a younger uh pastor leading um and so so it’s not like the rift that that you know you would think um but uh during the interim period Dr mcml returned and uh was there in an interim basis and first of I mean there’s just nobody that’s Dr mcml nobody preaches like him I mean you know like no one teaches like him uh nobody is him um and um uh the church gives me a lot of Grace that regard because I who could preach like
01:17:28 him who who can teach like him um I I do strive to to to uh to love um that’s one of the things that I think uh we we definitely connected and vibed on um because really the secret is you know the secret sauce I tell you the secret sauce is love um because preaching is an act of love if you love people you’ll be a good communicator of the Gospel if you if you love people you’re gonna find people you gon I mean it’s love is like the center of all of it right you know what I mean looking at the Bible through the lens of love and love of God love of all people and love for the people
01:18:09 that you Pastor that you Minister that you that you’re talking to it makes you see everything so different you don’t watch TV the same way you don’t watch commercials the same way you don’t think of the Bible the same way it’s it’s like yeah that’s the common denominator so that’s one thing I think that have in common so yeah yeah thank you for that uh question DJ that was that was a good one but man it’s it’s uh antioch’s a great church um love love I go to work on my day off at the church because I because I love being around the Saints so much and we just have
01:18:43 we have a great time you know um so some wisdom um some humor uh we we chuckle we laugh um we cry together that’s that’s our our model our modotto is we do life together together that’s kind of our unoficial model we literally are doing life together so highs lows um you know worst times you know we’re there together you know so thank thank you for that question you’re welcome well Pastor I want to thank you for coming on our program man I was bringing you on so us to talk about some other stuff but the theology stuff you took us through was very interesting and and it and I
01:19:22 think you Enlighten a lot of people and I I I look forward to air in this program so that people can get an opportunity to listen to it and and and get a different Viewpoint about certain things so I’m really looking forward to that but like what we do with most of our programs we ended by allowing you to take that camera right there you get to look in there just like hot wings you you ever watch hot wings hot wings at the end the hot wings you get a chance to talk into the camera say whatever you want to say if you want to let people know anything that’s coming up that
01:19:52 you want them to be aware of or if you just got some closing words you that’s on your heart you want people to take your time and say that to the camera right here we’re going to put in the description all the links and everything to how you can find out about what in their services are over at Antioch and how you can get in touch with the church and check out what Napoleon Dr Napoleon Harris is doing over there at that church and we gonna keep up with him we’re gonna having back on some panel discussions on some other topics as we go so right now Pastor camera’s yours ohy uh Hey
01:20:28 everybody uh closing words I you know let’s get back to love let’s get back to loving God let’s get back to loving ourselves let’s get back to loving each other um and um I think we’ll be all right if we do those things love love love God because that’s God’s love for us is the center the epicenter of everything it’s how we even know what love is right and and then love yourself love yourself love yourself every all parts all aspects love what looks back in the mirror at you and love your love your folk love your people love everybody that you
01:21:09 encounter and uh live as if God was right behind you and and how you would treat people if God was right behind you that’s what you should do that how you would treat yourself that’s that’s what you should do and let that be your your your guid and light and and come hang out with us on Sundays at Antioch Baptist Church you check us out on the website anoch cleveland.org and click the link on Wednesdays for Bible study hang out with us uh uh our Bible studies Wednesday at 6:30 we start with prayer the teaching starts around 7 o’clock um or Friday mornings at 10:
01:21:44 we go from 10 to 11 sometimes we hang out till 11:30 uh but but check us out um and uh commit yourself to a greater purpose a greater cause let it be God let it be your Community peace and blessings excellent that is Dr Reverend Napoleon Harris and we’ll see you next week peace